Smaller Carpets

[formica]

Are there any smaller carpets than IJ's?

[shaunyboy]

there's some small Jungles out there,i have a Jungle Jag thats barely over 4ft

cheers shaun

[Mikoh4792]

Palmerston jungles. They rarely exceed 5 feet, and usually stay around 4 feet long.

I forgot who but there was an australian breeder of locality jungles and he mentioned that jungles from cowley beach also stay as small.

Nick Mutton has a pretty nice collection of palmerstons if you ever decide to get one.

[formica]

there's some small Jungles out there,i have a Jungle Jag thats barely over 4ft

cheers shaun

thats very small, sounds like a good size, I was expecting closer to 5 or 6ft, is that usual for a jungle jag? how old is it now?

[formica]

Palmerston jungles. They rarely exceed 5 feet, and usually stay around 4 feet long.

I forgot who but there was an australian breeder of locality jungles and he mentioned that jungles from cowley beach also stay as small.

Nick Mutton has a pretty nice collection of palmerstons if you ever decide to get one.

interesting thanks!

is Nick a UK breeder?

[Mikoh4792]

interesting thanks!

is Nick a UK breeder?

Ah sorry about that. In that case Paul harris from UK pythons is the guy to go to...that's where Nick gets a lot of his imports.

[formica]

Ah sorry about that. In that case Paul harris from UK pythons is the guy to go to...that's where Nick gets a lot of his imports.

nice one thanks, thats the website i've just come across with Palmerston's listed

[Donnie]

Try precision reptiles as well. They are based in Germany but have a UK agent who will bring over what you want. I have snakes from both and they are both top quality (not to say you can't get top quality elsewhere as well)

[formica]

Try precision reptiles as well. They are based in Germany but have a UK agent who will bring over what you want. I have snakes from both and they are both top quality (not to say you can't get top quality elsewhere as well)

not sure my budget will streach to importing from Germany lol but will take a look, thanks!

[Donnie]

Don't worry about them being expensive as the price in euros on the website is pretty much what you will pay when it is converted to pounds. He goes over a couple of times a year and brings back lots to sell so it makes the import cost next to nothing.when I got my zebra from him it was a direct conversion with the exchange rate at the time give or take a few pounds.

[formica]

Don't worry about them being expensive as the price in euros on the website is pretty much what you will pay when it is converted to pounds. He goes over a couple of times a year and brings back lots to sell so it makes the import cost next to nothing.when I got my zebra from him it was a direct conversion with the exchange rate at the time give or take a few pounds.

good to know, some great looking snakes there, that snow is awsome

[Terranaut]

Given the temperament of most carpets as adults why the concern over size?

[formica]

Given the temperament of most carpets as adults why the concern over size?

not concerned about size in that way, I just like smaller snakes

[Terranaut]

5ft or JCP is not like 5 ft of boa or anything. My male JCP is about 6' and I can carry him around on my arm. If it is enclosure size that is an issue maybe you should consider a stimpsons python. Not a carpet but another very cool but smaller Aussie snake. Personally I think 6-8 ft of snake is perfect.

[red ink]

Are there any smaller carpets than IJ's?

Yes... none available in the trade over there. Cowley and Innisfail JCPs. Innisfail JCPs top out at 4 foot.

[Mikoh4792]

Yes... none available in the trade over there. Cowley and Innisfail JCPs. Innisfail JCPs top out at 4 foot.

how about palmerstons? They don't get much bigger than 4 feet either. They've been bred in the UK for several generations now.

[red ink]

Have you actually seen an adult Palmerston that's just over 4 foot?

Not having a go mate but a genuine question...

I'd be very surprised if you find 5 year old Palmerstons OS that are under 5 foot... specially a breeding female.

Not saying they aren't outside of Oz... but if I was over there and somebody was selling me a "Palmerston" first thing I would ask is a genuine pic of the mother next to a tape measure.

But to answer your question... yes Palmerston adults are around the 5 foot mark generally under.

[Mikoh4792]

Have you actually seen an adult Palmerston that's just over 4 foot?

Not having a go mate but a genuine question...

I'd be very surprised if you find 5 year old Palmerstons OS that are under 5 foot... specially a breeding female.

Not saying they aren't outside of Oz... but if I was over there and somebody was selling me a "Palmerston" first thing I would ask is a genuine pic of the mother next to a tape measure.

But to answer your question... yes Palmerston adults are around the 5 foot mark generally under.

5 foot is enough for me to call it small haha. Even IJ's get bigger than that.

What about tullies? how big do they get?

[Derek Roddy]

The problem when talking about size of captive animals is that "natural size" goes straight out the window.
Size in the wild is decided on one fact....the size of prey items in the area.

A jungle "line" in the wild may very well top out at 5 feet but, can easily be raised to 8 in a box with consistent food source.

Your food regimen will be the deciding factor of how big your snakes get.

D

[Mikoh4792]

The problem when talking about size of captive animals is that "natural size" goes straight out the window.
Size in the wild is decided on one fact....the size of prey items in the area.

A jungle "line" in the wild may very well top out at 5 feet but, can easily be raised to 8 in a box with consistent food source.

Your food regimen will be the deciding factor of how big your snakes get.

D

Would that be the same for the bigger jungles?(The ones that get around 6-8ft or so, but with big meals they can get to 10ft....etc)

[formica]

I think really we are talking about average (median?) sizes, rather than potential size or natural size, so an average snake, on an average diet in average environment (statistically speaking, i dont mean sub-optimum). no point complicating it lol

[formica]

UK Pythons has drawn me away from thinking about specific localities tbh, I may still go with one, but seen a few nice morphs and I'm tempted to get a pair now lol

[Donnie]

UK Pythons has drawn me away from thinking about specific localities tbh, I may still go with one, but seen a few nice morphs and I'm tempted to get a pair now lol

which ones?

[formica]

which ones?


narrowed it down to Jag het Axanthic, Caramel Jag and Caramel Jungle Jag, or maybe a het Granite...still cant deciede yet

I'd quite like to pair up 2 caramels, or 2 het axanthic irians, I want two diffrent colors, but with the chance of breeding a nice caramel or axanthic, without the price tag lol...decisions decisions! :D

[Donnie]

You made me have a peek at his website which is never good as the temptation sometimes gets me and he is now selling roughies. £5000/pair well out my price range but it will be interesting to see how quickly the price drops on the next few years.

[dbank999]

Okay that site is really bad for my bank account :unhappy:

Those roughies :smug:


Formica I like all of your choices, may I suggest more to add to the already tough decision? lol

[Derek Roddy]

I think really we are talking about average (median?) sizes, rather than potential size or natural size, so an average snake, on an average diet in average environment (statistically speaking, i dont mean sub-optimum). no point complicating it lol

As soon as you put an animal in a box, averages go out the window.

I'll give you an example.

I bred IJ/WPs for many years...starting in 98/99 til about 2009/10 or so.
The wild caught animals I started with were around 4 1/2 feet at the big end of the size. The offspring raised under my care got to about 5 1/2- 6 feet but, other animals I sold raised by other people have gotten to 6 - 8 with one guys adult females being almost 10 feet....an IJ!!!!

Ask any of those keepers how they've fed those animals and they all say "average".

The only average that exist is in relation to how you feed. You feed big meal often, they get bigger than animals fed smalls not so often.

Average size can only be measured when all animals in a particular area have access to the same food sources....something they don't have in captivity.

D

[red ink]

I think really we are talking about average (median?) sizes, rather than potential size or natural size, so an average snake, on an average diet in average environment (statistically speaking, i dont mean sub-optimum). no point complicating it lol

Median... for "Palmerstons" is 5 foot in captivity. That's the median top out, some smaller than others depending on captive husbandry as Derek said. I have sen a lot of palmerstons... longest one I have seen is 5.5 foot at 8 years old (female).

[red ink]

5 foot is enough for me to call it small haha. Even IJ's get bigger than that.

What about tullies? how big do they get?

My Tully male is 6 feet at 4 years old... seems to be consistent with the rest of my peers that keep them... Atherthons probably around 8 foot, my Atherthon female is just shy of 6 feet at 3 years old - no doubt she will get bigger.

[shaunyboy]

You made me have a peek at his website which is never good as the temptation sometimes gets me and he is now selling roughies. £5000/pair well out my price range but it will be interesting to see how quickly the price drops on the next few years.

i'm thinking 3 or 4 years from now they will be cheap mate.....

easy to breed with decent sized clutches = market flooded and prices dropped

i fancy a pair of roughies once the crazy prices drop

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

thats very small, sounds like a good size, I was expecting closer to 5 or 6ft, is that usual for a jungle jag? how old is it now?

he's smaller than most jungle jags ive seen,he was hatched 2007,so he's finished growing mate

cheers shaun

[formica]

finally picked a male Caramel Jag het Axanthic (Caramel Jaguar Coastal x IJ Axanthic) and a IJ cross het Axanthic female (Zebra Jungle X IJ Axanthic)

collecting at the end of Jan :D




My Tully male is 6 feet at 4 years old... seems to be consistent with the rest of my peers that keep them... Atherthons probably around 8 foot, my Atherthon female is just shy of 6 feet at 3 years old - no doubt she will get bigger.

nearly went for a pair of Tully, their yellow is awsome, but couldnt resist the chance of a Axanthic....maybe next time, or a Caramel Ocelot...to many choices lol

[Donnie]

Good choice. Those caramel jags look great and in a few years you will get a good variety of hatchies from that pairing.

[red ink]

i fancy a pair of roughies once the crazy prices drop

cheers shaun

Roughies are a boring snakes mate... much like a chondro. Not much movement out of them, but they are pretty lol.

[trueblue]

Tullys that originate close to the town of Tully and the coast are small, the further up the Tully gorge road you go,(inland), the bigger they get.

[trueblue]

The same with parmerstons, jungles from the bottom third of the palmerston highway are small, but the further up the highway you go the bigger they get, untill about half to three quarters up where the become what is known as athertons.

[shaunyboy]

Roughies are a boring snakes mate... much like a chondro. Not much movement out of them, but they are pretty lol.


i agree chondro's are pretty boring snakes,so roughies have lost some of their appeal now mate

are you ozzy keepers any closer to getting Oenpelli Pythons into the hobby ?

Oenpelli would be my choice if i could get my hands on some ozzy stuff and a shed load of locale specific Diamonds of course :D

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

finally picked a male Caramel Jag het Axanthic (Caramel Jaguar Coastal x IJ Axanthic) and a IJ cross het Axanthic female (Zebra Jungle X IJ Axanthic)

collecting at the end of Jan :D



great choice mate

as Donnie said,you will get some interesting hatchlings out of that pair

cheers shaun

[Mikoh4792]

i agree chondro's are pretty boring snakes,so roughies have lost some of their appeal now mate

are you ozzy keepers any closer to getting Oenpelli Pythons into the hobby ?

Oenpelli would be my choice if i could get my hands on some ozzy stuff and a shed load of locale specific Diamonds of course :D

cheers shaun

I thought there was only one oenpelli python in captivity.

[shaunyboy]

I thought there was only one oenpelli python in captivity.


Peter Krauss aquired a pair in 1974,he kept them for 16 years,he has bred them,but i don't know how many hatchlings he produced,or what become of them

imo they are truely remarkable snakes

cheers shaun

[red ink]

i agree chondro's are pretty boring snakes,so roughies have lost some of their appeal now mate

are you ozzy keepers any closer to getting Oenpelli Pythons into the hobby ?

Oenpelli would be my choice if i could get my hands on some ozzy stuff and a shed load of locale specific Diamonds of course :D

cheers shaun

Nah mate... still love mine, quite goofy when out. Because of the narrow snout and the forward facing eyes they have this dopey look about them. Mines gotten over it's "I'm Satan" phase and now a joy to handle. Still coils from time to time but I'm yet to experience the formidable teeth they have.

Oenpelli are in captivity as Dr G Bedford have a few now I believe he may have pairs from the last expedition they did.

Won't be in the hobby anytime soon mate (apart from the private investors that funded the expeditions). They need to sort out the captive husbandry first and get them breeding. Then there's the state by state legislation to deal with as well as obviously the legalities of profit sharing with the traditional owners and the NT govt as well.

[Donnie]

Have you picked them up yet Formica?

[formica]

Have you picked them up yet Formica?

hopefully next Saturday :bouncy: woot!

[shaunyboy]

Nah mate... still love mine, quite goofy when out. Because of the narrow snout and the forward facing eyes they have this dopey look about them. Mines gotten over it's "I'm Satan" phase and now a joy to handle. Still coils from time to time but I'm yet to experience the formidable teeth they have.

Oenpelli are in captivity as Dr G Bedford have a few now I believe he may have pairs from the last expedition they did.

Won't be in the hobby anytime soon mate (apart from the private investors that funded the expeditions). They need to sort out the captive husbandry first and get them breeding. Then there's the state by state legislation to deal with as well as obviously the legalities of profit sharing with the traditional owners and the NT govt as well.

many thanks for the info mate

i'm thinking a bite with them big old Roughie teeth,would be painful stuff :D


cheers shaun

[formica]

picked them up this morning, feisty little buggers! :D have a few little scars from our battle over going into a new box lol...will post pics once they have settled in a bit. little beauties :)

[GUITARZAN509]

5ft or JCP is not like 5 ft of boa or anything. My male JCP is about 6' and I can carry him around on my arm. If it is enclosure size that is an issue maybe you should consider a stimpsons python. Not a carpet but another very cool but smaller Aussie snake. Personally I think 6-8 ft of snake is perfect.
+ 1 Very well put