Snake and mouse wrapped up in a napkin

[Zelg]

Ok so I'm not sure if this is a common mishap or not but it seems like it could be. I normally feed my ball python in a plastic tub just to avoid any substrate ingestion and for it being an easier place to monitor and make sure everything is going ok. When I do this I normally put paper towels down on the bottom in case there is any leakage from the prey so its easy to clean up. Today though I didnt have any paper towels on hand so I used some napkins and unfolded them and just kind of carelessly laid them on the tub and kind of folding inwards from the walls real loosely.

I put muh snake in and then dropped the prey down and as soon as it struck the mouse and coiled up, I saw the napkins coil up along with the food. I kind of panicked and tried my best to pull the napkin away and uncoil the snake a bit and eventually was able to slip the napkin out and all is well but it got me wondering.

1) Is this a common mishap that people experience and should I just avoid using napkins/paper towels?

2) Does it really stress the snake out to fiddle with it while its trying to eat? Didnt seem phased by me picking it up and trying to pull the napkin out, it just tried to squeeze a bit harder is all but I'd still obviously like to avoid adding more stress.

and 3) Would the snake even try to eat its food with a napkin wrapped around it or might it uncoil and scoot the napkin out of the way? I didnt really want to find out before it was too late.

Here is a picture I took in the middle of it all after I pulled some of the napkin apart to let me see a bit better.

Anyways, wasnt a terribly huge issue but just wanted to get some other thoughts on this.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FFO1g7cZGBk/UpJ4Okymq8I/AAAAAAAABmY/Ta2et3mzphI/w1139-h855-no/CAM00583.jpg

[DeadlyDesires]

you should feed him in his enclosure.. there is no need to move the snake for feeding..

[Terranaut]

This is why you never feed on paper towels. Feed in the enclosure.

[Lankyrob]

Have read this on a number of occassions, if you use paper towels, tho there is no need, then you must make sure the prey is dry or it sticks. This can happen with substrate too if the rat is wet but i personally would rather the snake ate something natural like a small piece of sustrate rather than a large piece of paper

[Terranaut]

Occasionally the entire piece of paper towel follows the rat and gets caught in the snakes throat. I have read about snakes dying from this but I do not know of anyone personally that has had a death.

[shaunyboy]

if you ever want a snake to let go of something,i have found the best way to do it, is to drip cold water onto its head.....

pulling at the snake may break teeth mate

cheers shaun

[Zelg]

Hmm ok.. Thanks for the responses. Maybe I'll just start feeding him in his enclosure from now on. Also the tip about dripping water on its head its wonderful to know. I dont know that I would have thought about it. Thanks.

[mistersprinkles]

Definitely DO NOT feed the snake on any kind of cloth, towel, napkin, paper towel, etc. It's dangerous.

You can feed the snake in its enclosure provided it is on no substrate, or a substrate (like certain kinds of wood shavings) that is not dangerous to ingest.

[Darkbird]

Not a fan of the feeding tub thing, but if your snake is doing ok it doesn't hurt either. Definately no substrate in the feeding tub though, it kinda defeats the purpose. And yes it will add stress trying to fix this type of mishap, some animals just handle it better than others. I did have almost the same exact thing happen to me the other day, I just left the snake be and monitored it to make sure the papertowel didn't go the same route as the rat. I use paper towel as substrate in my racks.

[Zelg]

I use cypress mulch as my substrate in his enclosure due to it holding moisture well which is why I like to take him out and feed him in the tub. It just doesnt seem like it'd be good to risk pieces getting ingested I guess.

Its my first snake so I'm still not very knowledgeable about signs of stress but to me he seems very comfortable. Its very tame and easy to handle and comes out of his hide whenever I sit down next to his enclosure. As far as I could tell he seems fine with feeding in the tub. I'm always up for hearing other opinions and ideas though.

[DeadlyDesires]

if your reptile is properly supported by his husbandry and everything is right within his cage he will be fine eating in there.

[formica]

too much freaking out!

the same thing happens all the time with substrates, plants, leaves, twigs, whatever happens to be in the way at the time of the constriction, it doesnt mean the snake will then eat said objects along with its prey...esp not a huge piece of paper towel, which will quickly uncurl itself once the snakes grip is loosened

unless the snake starts eating the paper towel, this is not an issue, but there is no reason for the snake to eat the paper towel, keep an eye and it'll be fine - but there is no need to feed in a separate enclosure, it just adds stress.

I've pretty much always used live plants in my vivariums, i've seen many large leaves (both dead/unattached to plants, and live-attached to plant) coiled and tangled up in constrictions along with prey, they have never been eaten along with the prey. once the snake starts looking for a point to start swallowing, it loosens its grip, substrates, leaves, paper towel, whatever, all gets untangled and the prey is swallowed without any issues.

[Terranaut]

Well even a google search will find you an unfortunate plethora of stories of people having thier snakes die or suffer huge over eating paper towel.
It is not like eating forest floor in the wild or the normal use substrates we all use. Processed, bleached and glued are not things I want inside my snakes. To any newer snake owners reading this and wondering which opinion to trust please ere on the side of caution and never feed on paper towel....ever!!!!
This snake regurged most of the towel and still died. Not my snake. This was posted on another forum.
http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/1/8113_68979_Large_De2ygb6K54M6y.jpg

[formica]

Well even a google search will find you an unfortunate plethora of stories of people having thier snakes die or suffer huge over eating paper towel.
It is not like eating forest floor in the wild or the normal use substrates we all use. Processed, bleached and glued are not things I want inside my snakes. To any newer snake owners reading this and wondering which opinion to trust please ere on the side of caution and never feed on paper towel....ever!!!!
This snake regurged most of the towel and still died. Not my snake. This was posted on another forum.
http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/1/8113_68979_Large_De2ygb6K54M6y.jpg

my point was not that paper towel cannot be dangerous, but that snake owners should not be letting it get to the point where it is swallowing it in the first place!

the same can be said for numerous things in a snake enclosure, i find it strange that a snake owner would not be taking care to make sure that this did not happen, regardless of the substrate being used or other contents of the enclosure! what a horrible way for a snake to die :(

another good reason for people to dry their rodents off after defrosting aswell imo, it wont get substrate etc stuck to it, and go down inadvertently, i bet the mouse on that paper towel was soaking wet straight out of warm water

[Terranaut]

Well when I read your post I read it as you supporting the use of paper towel as an ok practice. It is not. arguably the worst choice to feed on out there. The answer to the problem is not to keep an eye on things and make sure it doesn't get that far. The answer is ..... never ever feed on paper towel....period!!! It is not the same as injesting a bit of eco earth or aspen. My god how is a new person ever supposed to learn on here with muddled posts like that when it is cut and dry. NEVER FEED ON PAPER TOWELS! !
The End.

[formica]

it is very similar to ingesting a large fern leaf, or moss clump, or newspaper, or its own tail...new snake keepers need to know that they should be keeping an eye on feeds, regardless of the substrate, then things like that would never happen, regardless.

[Terranaut]

I am yet to see a fern leaf or moss clump full of bleach and glue. it is not the same. Yes you should always watch but the best way to avoid this situation is not to feed on paper towel. This is what the thread is about... not due diligence.

[Zelg]

Wow, that picture is disgusting as hell but I really appreciate you posting it. I am totally convinced now to not feed on paper towels/napkins anymore. While I absolutely observe the feeding each time, my experience this last time was more stress that I want to put on the snake, obviously. I'll go ahead and do its next feeding inside his enclosure.

Thanks for both of your guy's posts.

[formica]

Zelg, fair enough on your decision, glad you and your snake got thru the ordeal! I know its scary to see things like that going on for the first time, and not being sure what to do to deal with it


I am yet to see a fern leaf or moss clump full of bleach and glue. it is not the same. Yes you should always watch but the best way to avoid this situation is not to feed on paper towel. This is what the thread is about... not due diligence.

i've used paper towel in quarantine for years, never had a snake swallow it, I prefer it to newspaper, because I have no idea what is in the inks used on them, and that stuff comes off all over the place

bleach, or chlorine, evaporates very quickly, it doesn't remain inside the paper towel after it has been whitened, can you imagine the trouble we'd have with toilet paper if it did? eek. well some weirder parts of the cosmetic industry would be out of work lol

I think this is as much about paper towel, as it is about due diligence tbh

a large matted piece of moss, could easily cause a serious impaction if it was ingested (i'm not talking about a single strand, i'm talking about a piece on par with the size of paper towel, as may be found in many a natural or live planted setup)

...the number of potential problems are endless, and as long as ''due diligence'' is done, then all of them can be avoided. no point blaming the substrate, for human error, if the snake eats it!

[Terranaut]

Once again either yoir arguing for the sake of arguing or you misread the op's original question. Try real hard now.... its easy....stay on topic. The topic is paper towel and feeding....not forest floor and quarentine. Not once did anyone say not to use it as substrate, just do not feed on it. Newspaper does not have the same properties as paper towel. Also nobody said not to watch the snake feed, I said not to do it on paper towel. Moss will not stick to prey like paper towel. Paper towels are their own entity. Once again feel free to post any factual data on snake deaths due to any substrate ingestion. And you wonder why there was so much "freaking out" ? Maybe ask the owner of the poor snake in the photo. It was to leave the proper info and not to derail a thread and mix words like "feeding" and "quarantine" when one is clearly different from the other. Do you feed on paper towel?

[formica]

why are you being rude?

people use paper towel as quarantine substrate all the time, are you suggesting that they should then remove the snake from its enclosure to feed it?

Yes, if I have a snake in quarantine, it will most likley have paper towel as a substrate, and it will get fed a dry mouse on said substrate. have always done it like that, and have never had a problem with it, as I said above.

if the snake has already started swallowing the paper towel, then the owner has already failed. as I implied above. the two topics are not separate just because you demand that they be so.


i'm sure you are not suggesting that a snake can digest a clump of moss the size of a paper towel...? for sure small bits and pieces of vegetation/substrate are not an issue, but thats not what I was talking about, and i did make that clear.

[red ink]

If paper towel is ingested... just tear it off before the snake ingest the whole thing in large quantities... like the pictured snake regurge. Whole lot of papaer towel there... where the heck was the owner?


Key being... supervised feeding.

Small amounts wont hurt, over indulgence... well as with anything, over indulgence is bad. Specially with paper towels lol.

I feed my hatchlings on paper towels... substrate in their hatchling tubs.

Tip:

When the snake strikes the prey, wiggle it until it wraps three coils around it. Then lift up the prey item, snake included to make sure no paper towels is caught in the coils. If any is caught simply tear it off to where its caught. Easy preventative measure from ingesting paper towels in large quantities..

[lady_bug87]

I quarantine on paper towel. I feed on newspaper I have never had this happen.

I dry the rats well and I watch until I'm confident nothing can go wrong. Then I leave. It's all about watching what's going on

[Mikoh4792]

You can use unprinted newspaper. It doesn't get snapped by teeth like papertowel does.

[franks]

I use packing paper at Home Depot. It is large enough where it is impossible for the snake to constrict and consume.

[KORBIN5895]

I feed all of my snakes wet prey. I just drop it in and walk away. I feed on newspaper and cocohusk.