Natural plants/sticks vs fake

[Mellik's mamma]

Hello, I am a new ball/royal python owner

I want to make their life as normal/natural as possible

Are there benefits to having real plants and twigs over fake? Is one more safe than the other? If I should go with all natural, what should I get or stay away from? Are fake plants/twigs harmful at all? I have the "interior design" from the previous owner, and they had Mellik for a while and they are healthy, BUT i want Mellik to have more to hide in, etc.

thanks for your help

[alessia55]

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[mistersprinkles]

When I first started keeping balls I would just use a water dish, a hide, and that was the whole enclosure. Eventually I tried keeping an artificial vine with very soft cloth leaves in the tank. It made for a lot of ground cover. The ball would actually spend time sitting in/under the leaves instead of being in the hide all the time. My guess is that the ground cover made the snake feel "safe" enough to be out in the open.

[drumcrush]

Here's my dads enclosure for his ball. He has two hides and a fake plant and that drift wood. He really likes to sit on top of the drift wood. And if you want to make it look more natural, Adding a background would really help. not only does it look good, but it helps snakes feel more secure.

[wrecker45]

In ontario we have dollarama stores. They have some nice looking fake plants.

[Mellik's mamma]

thanks for your input everyone :) i went and got some more grapevines and soft, but fake plants. Mellik is already more adventurous and hanging out in the "tree".

what is your opinion on moss for humidity? any specific moss better than others? i am not going to buy moss till i get a response in case it is harmful to mellik. wish the previous owners were 100% on his/her sex :P

humidity is usually around 50 to 60 when not in shed. i put it to around 60 to 70 when in shed (which they just did this morning -- first time with me) yes, eyes shed, too. :) then had a big poo. sorry, just really excited mellik is doing well.

oh yeah, anyone else have crazy dreams when their python is in shed? haha, they wake me up b/c i am so worried! dreams such as their body being cut in half b/c of shedding or other snakes and reptiles magically appearing in the tank to harm them. wow. or am i just insane? yeah...insane. haha

[Aaron_S]

Natural? Why aren't you building a termite mound for him then?

It's in captivity. Who cares about nature.

[Hannibalcanibal]

Natural? Why aren't you building a termite mound for him then?

It's in captivity. Who cares about nature.

^pretty much this. If it has proper temps, humidity, and is the right size, who cares?

[formica]

for live plants, i'd recomend low-light ferns and mosses, you will need at least some lighting, 6000K LED strips will do, additional red LED strips will give your plants the opportunity to reproduce aswell, 6K lighting by itself can add excessive height, a bit of red helps plants get bushier. approx 1W of LED strips per square foot should do the trick, or you can use a 6000K or 6500K CFL bulb, if you have space to add a fitting, this will give you some good growth, 30W per square foot is my general rule - but with plants, you can never have to much light, but not having enough = dead plants.

my preference for moss is ''Fern Moss'', it grows fast (for a moss...mosses grow very slow!), even under low light, with a good substrate at well maintained humidity, it should do very well.

but, its important to allow your plants time to establish themselves properly before adding a snake, otherwise they will be dig them up, bend and brake them, adding to the stress they are already under by being transplanted into a new enviroment, there is a good chance they will give up and die. 6 weeks is a reasonable time to cycle a planted encosure, I'd also recommend a bio-active substrate if you want live plants, this will help feed the plants without needing to add potentially hazardous fertilizers (although allot of tropical low light ferns need very little fertilizer anyway), aswell as helping to clean the enclosure and keep molds at bay.

It's in captivity. Who cares about nature.

lots of people do. infact some of us believe that we have a responsibility to provide as much enrichment as possible for captive animals, its not just about looking nice.

[Mellik's mamma]

formica, thanks for your nice and informative response. it made me realize i probably don't have the time for this :/

hannibalcanibal, same to you...i think. :) you are right though, i guess as long as everything is good, plants might be overkill and cause problems if not taken care of meticulously (being 3rd shift = not a ton of free time)

and to you aaron s. thanks for your advice though it was a bit harsh. or at least i took it that way. idk, maybe you were just being silly. i hope this is the case. i didn't build a termite mound b/c mellik told me they didn't like termites...they party and drink too much. :P

[Mellik's mamma]

aaron s, pretty sure you were just making a point. sorry, i can be a little..uh..italian sometimes!! :)

[drumcrush]

It's in captivity. Who cares about nature.

^^ I do... I know I can't provide exact, but I like to do the best I can.

[Mellik's mamma]

thanks drumcrush and formica for making me feel like i am not crazy for asking this question

[drumcrush]

thanks drumcrush and formica for making me feel like i am not crazy for asking this question

Yeah! Sure thing:)

[Aaron_S]

^^ I do... I know I can't provide exact, but I like to do the best I can.

Here's a question for you, if it can't be exact like their nature then why even try? To make yourself feel better about keeping it?

My point is simple. Balls live in TERMITE mounds in the wild. If you have plants, grapevines and other things in their then you're not even close to what their natural habitat is.

My first post was just being cheeky because I am awesome like that.

[Aaron_S]

lots of people do. infact some of us believe that we have a responsibility to provide as much enrichment as possible for captive animals, its not just about looking nice.

Son, when you can prove to me that ball pythons need enrichment and actually get something from it I will listen to your point.

I breed them. In bins. I have animals almost 3 times older than my kid. Enrichment is not needed.

[drumcrush]

Here's a question for you, if it can't be exact like their nature then why even try? To make yourself feel better about keeping it?

My point is simple. Balls live in TERMITE mounds in the wild. If you have plants, grapevines and other things in their then you're not even close to what their natural habitat is.

My first post was just being cheeky because I am awesome like that.

I try because trying is worth something. not necessarily to me, but to the animal.

[formica]

it made me realize i probably don't have the time for this :/

Its not as much work as I may have made it sound! its well worth the effort, the effect is beautiful from a display point of view. look up bio active substrates, to see what might be involved, its not hard i promise!

bio active enclosures are far less work than sterile enclosures, except for the initial setup. but once it has got up and running, you dont need to clean all the time, disinfect, throw away substrates, pick up poop and urates, the plants keep a good level of humidity, so no having to spray all the time, live moss will provide nice natural damp hides for the snakes to shed.

plants provide good cover for snakes, they can hide amongst them, crawl over them to explore, drink water droplets from them, sleep amongst the roots or among the leaves. growing plants provide an ever changing environment to explore, they provide stability for humidity levels, they help absorb nutrients (ie waste) from the snake to keep the enclosure clean.

there are too many reasons not to do bio active enclosures :yes: do it!


Son, when you can prove to me that ball pythons need enrichment and actually get something from it I will listen to your point.

I breed them. In bins. I have animals almost 3 times older than my kid. Enrichment is not needed.

someone younger than me, calling me ''son'', is a little insulting, from a British perspective.

[Aaron_S]

Its not as much work as I may have made it sound! its well worth the effort, the effect is beautiful from a display point of view. look up bio active substrates, to see what might be involved, its not hard i promise!

bio active enclosures are far less work than sterile enclosures, except for the initial setup. but once it has got up and running, you dont need to clean all the time, disinfect, throw away substrates, pick up poop and urates, the plants keep a good level of humidity, so no having to spray all the time, live moss will provide nice natural damp hides for the snakes to shed.

plants provide good cover for snakes, they can hide amongst them, crawl over them to explore, drink water droplets from them, sleep amongst the roots or among the leaves. growing plants provide an ever changing environment to explore, they provide stability for humidity levels, they help absorb nutrients (ie waste) from the snake to keep the enclosure clean.

there are too many reasons not to do bio active enclosures :yes: do it!




someone younger than me, calling me ''son'', is a little insulting, from a British perspective.

You're welcome to take it as you like Son.

Maybe when you grow up I will stop calling you that.

[Aaron_S]

I try because trying is worth something. not necessarily to me, but to the animal.

Actually on the contrary. All scientific facts would prove you wrong.

If you don't like science then how about all the snakes living in bins for the past decade or more? Obviously it means nothing to them.

That's a different argument though so I'm done because what you think doesn't hurt the animal.

[formica]

not everyone gets their scientific facts from the side of a box of cereal.

[drumcrush]

Actually on the contrary. All scientific facts would prove you wrong.

If you don't like science then how about all the snakes living in bins for the past decade or more? Obviously it means nothing to them.

That's a different argument though so I'm done because what you think doesn't hurt the animal.

do you think snakes are going to straight out say "I hate living in bins?" I dont think so. I give my animals the choice to climb around and explore or just chill if they want, an oportunity they don't really have in bins. I give them this choice. This is my way. If you keep yours in bins, then cool. That is your way.

[Terranaut]

I have to agree with Aaron here. The snake is not intelegent enough to know what is natural and what is not. I would think neither a tub nor a nice natural viv is like their natural habitat. But that being said if you do a natural viv for you and to display your snake then cool. I like display vivs as well.


As far as being insulted by being called "son" please...I have seen much worse from you than this.

[smy_749]

http://ghanatravels.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/termite-mound-ghana-picture-208.jpg?w=500&h=371

That is Ghana...

BP's do leave the termite mounds, and have been spotted in areas other than inside termite mounds. Just sayin...

As far as needing or not needing enrichment, don't know, don't care. I like display vivs, but I like them for selfish reasons.

[formica]

I have to agree with Aaron here. The snake is not intelegent enough to know what is natural and what is not. I would think neither a tub nor a nice natural viv is like their natural habitat. But that being said if you do a natural viv for you and to display your snake then cool. I like display vivs as well.


As far as being insulted by being called "son" please...I have seen much worse from you than this.

when have i insulted someone? disagreeing with an opinion, is not an insult. i'm not perfect, i get annoyed, but i am not insistently rude every time someone disagrees with what I say.

[lady_bug87]

when have i insulted someone? disagreeing with an opinion, is not an insult. i'm not perfect, i get annoyed, but i am not insistently rude every time someone disagrees with what I say.

No you're self-righteous, condescending, and full of unearned hauty derision.

[lady_bug87]

Getting back to the enclosures and the question I keep multiple species some I keep in bins and some I keep in display enclosures. My boas all live in bins my green tree lives in a planted vivarium. My pit lives in a very boring tank set up

What's better generally depends on the animal. I have some that are too defensive to live comfortably in display enclosures hence the bins

[formica]

No you're self-righteous, condescending, and full of unearned hauty derision.

i've been keeping reptiles nearly as long as you have been alive. dont tell me about 'unearned'. the only time i condescend, or deride people, is when they are insulting and take my difference of opinion as a personal insult. i give what I get, and i do not put up with people who believe they have the right to troll, bully and hound people out of forums, in the manner in which occurs on on this forum FAR to often.

[Aaron_S]

not everyone gets their scientific facts from the side of a box of cereal.

No that's just you.

We all get ours from actual sources considering we always share them.

[lady_bug87]

That's called ageism just in case you were unaware

[formica]

No that's just you.

We all get ours from actual sources considering we always share them.

whatever. you are a troll. of no significance to me whatsoever.

That's called ageism just in case you were unaware

ageism? lol not sure what you reading, when you read my posts, but its clearly not what I am actually writing.

[Aaron_S]

whatever. you are a troll. of no significance to me whatsoever.



ageism? lol not sure what you reading, when you read my posts, but its clearly not what I am actually writing.

Troll? Wow. What a come back. Someone who has no argument always resorts to calling one just that.

She was referring to the point you are trying to make that we are inferior to you because you're older than us. You've tried it on me and Lori now. We are only reading what you type.

[formica]

Troll? Wow. What a come back. Someone who has no argument always resorts to calling one just that.

She was referring to the point you are trying to make that we are inferior to you because you're older than us. You've tried it on me and Lori now. We are only reading what you type.

i never made such a point, I pointed out that tell me I have not ''earned'' the right to an opinion, is nonsense, considering that I have been keeping reptiles for nearly as long as she has been alive. that, is nothing like what you are saying I said, it certainly has no relevance to ageism whatsoever

when people tell me I have no right to an opinion, or that I have no experience, I will correct them. and if you see that as an insult, then you clearly have severe issues being able to understand human language.


I dont now why i even bothered responding to you, you are a troll, regardless of how long you have been involved with this forum, you fit the description, perfectly.

[Terranaut]

Here we go again or is it still.
Regardless of your length of time as a keeper or your knowwledge it is your attitude towards others that is bringing forth the comments your getting. You tell people they don't know what they are talking about and wonder why these people scrutinize what you say.
A troll is someone who comes on here with little to offer and nothing to back up any of their opposing views. During discussions on these views they can never explain their point of view and when asked to back it up resort to name calling and insults. Sound familiar? I am sorry but the worst ever argument to support ones claims is one based on superiority due to age or length of time in the hobby. We have had people on here who's experience level makes your look tiny. Guess what....all that time he spent doing stuff wrong. In his mind our collective knowledge was wrong and he was not will to talk things through. Your posts are so similar it isn't funny. It would have been great if you could have been part of that discussion and seen yourself from a third person perspective.

[formica]

Here we go again or is it still.
Regardless of your length of time as a keeper or your knowwledge it is your attitude towards others that is bringing forth the comments your getting. You tell people they don't know what they are talking about and wonder why these people scrutinize what you say.
A troll is someone who comes on here with little to offer and nothing to back up any of their opposing views. During discussions on these views they can never explain their point of view and when asked to back it up resort to name calling and insults. Sound familiar? I am sorry but the worst ever argument to support ones claims is one based on superiority due to age or length of time in the hobby. We have had people on here who's experience level makes your look tiny. Guess what....all that time he spent doing stuff wrong. In his mind our collective knowledge was wrong and he was not will to talk things through. Your posts are so similar it isn't funny. It would have been great if you could have been part of that discussion and seen yourself from a third person perspective.

i always explain the reasons behind my opinions and practices, I always listen to other peoples opinions, and if i disagree, I say so. I was attacked for my practices in this thread, I was insulted for my views, with no provocation other than difference of opinion.

I do not ''call people names'', if i believe that their information is not best practice, I will say so, and when people take this as a personal insult and become rude and insulting, then they cannot expect a polite response.

My attitude, towards a few people on here, is a direct response to certain members of this forum who believe they have the right to be rude, bullying and insulting towards anyone who dares disagree with them.

I do not consider myself to be an expert, that was not my point regarding lady_bugs age at all, but I will not accept rude, insulting and bullying behavior from forum members who believe they have that right, simply because they have been on here for a long time.



edit: my use of the word 'troll' was intended in the factual sense, not as a personal insult. The definition of Troll, also includes people who use provocative language (in this, calling me ''Son''), in a deliberate attempt to elicit an emotional response unrelated to the topic at hand.

[red ink]

A combination of both in the enclosures are great. Real wood decorated with plastic plants look really good as a display enclosure without the hard work of live plants.

[Mellik's mamma]

oh my goodness!! i never meant to start a war!!! calm down everyone. we are all snake lovers who plan on marrying them some day when it is legal, so let's all be friends :P

i am joking about marrying my snake...

um, well, sorry everyone is getting so upset :(

aaron s...so everything i have read about pythons never mention termite mounds. maybe i am not reading enough...or is this some major information only known by the secret python society???!!! just being silly, for realz. thanks for the info. very interesting.

again everyone, sorry. can we all just calm down? take a deep breath and kiss your snake :)

[Terranaut]

oh my goodness!! i never meant to start a war!!! calm down everyone. we are all snake lovers who plan on marrying them some day when it is legal, so let's all be friends :P

i am joking about marrying my snake...

um, well, sorry everyone is getting so upset :(

aaron s...so everything i have read about pythons never mention termite mounds. maybe i am not reading enough...or is this some major information only known by the secret python society???!!! just being silly, for realz. thanks for the info. very interesting.

again everyone, sorry. can we all just calm down? take a deep breath and kiss your snake :)

So sorry. You caused nothing. This has been going on since before you posted anything. Your snake marrying give "hots" a new meaning. The termite mound stuff is pretty common knowledge for royal pythons. Look up royal pythons and termites in the same search and see what you find.

[Mellik's mamma]

oh gawd, i quoted a miley cyrus song w/o even trying. sorry everyone. does that name count as cussing?

[Mellik's mamma]

thanks terranaut