View Full Version : problem with basking light
Hi guys,
I've been using the recommended way to setup basking lights for a while now, and it was good. 3x50watt lights to get a 140f surface temp.
However, my sav is getting so big now that those little basking lights are heating just spots on his big body. So I witched to bigger 50watt halogen floods... and I had to lift them a little higher or else he hits his head on the lights a lot. Not he fits under the lights just fine, but I measured the temp of the surface, now it's only 120-125F on the wood he lays on.
So I'm wondering, since he is much thicker now, the surface that he lays on is actually a few inches farther than where hs body actually meets the light so whe he's basking it would actually be close to the light and thus higher temp. I'm not sure if this is the right way of thinking, but if I lower the lights he can't go under it properly as he likes to stick his head up while basking sometimes and it hits the lights.
thanks in advance!
smy_749
11-12-13, 09:50 AM
get higher wattage bulbs. Get 65 watt bulbs or something.
I was almost going to get a 75W as that's the next gap they got at my local stores, but I was afraid it would dry out the humidity.... So I guess we got a problem... If I can't get 65w should I get 75 w?
also, not sure if this relates to the light issue(being too small and all) This past week or 2 I've noticed he's not as active, also when I feed him he usually sprints like a maniac to eat the food and jump at the food, but this past week or two he will just kinda jog for the food and not the usual scary self.. so I'm worried. I haven't changed anything in the tank setup for a long time, so my hope is that it's just that the lights are getting too small and if I can fix the basking light issue he will get back to his old self...
Toothless
11-12-13, 11:27 AM
What are you using as a basking surface? You could try changing the basking surface to one that absorbs more heat.
If I put wood under my basking lights, I only get a temperature of about 120F. Light colored tiles gives me about 135F. I switched to dark colored tiles and without changing the height of the lights was able to get a temperature of 155F.
I am in the process of switching out to the larger halogens as well (waiting for each one to burn out before replacing). I have one of the larger ones (45w), and actually found I needed to raise the light up higher otherwise the temps reached 170F under that light).
Each medium absorbs and loses heat at a different degree and rate. If you experiment a bit, you should be able to find something that gives you the proper temps without moving the lights too close to the surface.
I'd be careful about switching to a higher wattage as it might raise the ambient temps in the enclosure.
Yah i'm reluctant to raising wattage too..
My basking surface is a platform I built using plywood. As stated before the surface temp was around 140F and he seems to do well with that temp until he got too big for them(at least that's my guess for his reason of being less active and aggressive with feeding), but with bigger bulbs at same wattage(50watt), raised up, it's 120F now. I'm moving it back down slowly and measuring the surface temp every few hours to see if I can get it low enough but not too low so he hits it, but the right temp still...
if I can't get the 140F with these bulbs I guess I have no choice but to raise wattage?
murrindindi
11-12-13, 11:50 AM
I was almost going to get a 75W as that's the next gap they got at my local stores, but I was afraid it would dry out the humidity.... So I guess we got a problem... If I can't get 65w should I get 75 w?
Hi, if you fit a dimmer switch it makes adjusting the surface temps much easier (in which case you can use a 75w).
Edit: You also need to take into account that the monitor`s dorsal surface is higher than the basking object so the temp will be that much hotter. I have no idea how you set the bulbs up, but here`s my monitor`s basking site, the halogens are placed just a few cm apart....
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8183/8098456051_7b1138d12a_z.jpg
Here's my latest light setup as of today, using biggest bulbs I can find... just now I lowered the light by an inch or so... after a couple hours the temp gun shows 160F on the surface... so I guess the 50 watts seems to work now.. i'm not sure what i'm doing here to get 120F and then 160F with just a small adjustment.
Anyways.. his torso is a couple inchest thick so I guess if the basking surface is 160F then his torso would be too hot?
What should I do?
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lKrDMhEEj3Q/UoJzK15_A1I/AAAAAAAAV1U/7GoBBLHLMAs/w1054-h790-no/IMG_20131112_100858.jpg
p.s. the temp also depends on which spot in the light of the surface i'm pointing at.. i am not sure if I should be using the center of the light "circle" as measurement or slightly off center... but the measurements are close to the center of the light... If someone can tell me what I should make the wood's surface temp to be, then I can try to lower/higher the lights to achieve that...
I've been told 140F for a while, but now with murrindindi's comment regarding torso thickness, I need to add that to the equation. Things were more straight forward when the sav is small, but now I feel like my sav is not doing well, just now I was tong feeding him and he won't even eat the food unless I put it on the ground and he wasn't jumping at it...
Since you guys have had big monitors so you would be able to tell me how to get this set up correctly for a more grown up guy hehe.. also ask me any questions... in case my setup is not simply a basking issue...
Heres what I go so far
Humidity measure at the middle of the tank is 85%+.. although my humidity meter has been broken for over 1 month so I don't know if that's still the case but I would assume so just because I haven't changed anything since. But I'll be getting a new one today just to be safe.
Basking temp.. was 140F with small bulbs 3x50watts, but now I'm using big bulbs, trying to adjust it, depending on what you guys give me feedback on.
Cage size: 4feetx4feetx8feet
substraight: soil sand mix about 70:30 ratio
burrow, I don't know why but he stopped burrowing for the last 2 months, even when I make a burrow for him, he trashes it and makes it flat land.. he would only sleep in hides now.
Water: I got a bigger water holder for him since he out grew the previous ones many times.. but this big one is now also too small, he can fit is torso in it but won't fully submerge.. but he doesn't seem to use it much, I thought it is enough for drinking, but he hardly drinks anyways... so should I get a big huge tub so he can swim in it?
not sure what else... pls help thx
smy_749
11-12-13, 12:54 PM
post a picture of the entire enclosure. 70:30 ratio , which is the dirt which is the sand? How much of the cage is empty/how heavily have you furnished it? Have you changed his feeding habits? I don't use a humidity gauge honestly. When I open the top of my enclosure, if it feels like I teleported to the equator, then I'm good.
murrindindi
11-12-13, 01:15 PM
Hi again, it looks as if one of the halogen bulbs is a smaller diameter (wattage?) than the others, is that the case, and what wattage are they all right now?
Edit: Has the monitor put on "extra" weight recently and over quite a short space of time?
dang I lost the whole post, let me type again!!!
yes the bulb closest is slightly smaller but all 3 are 50watts. I don't see extra weight but I know he grew, but he's not fatter than before really... I don't have a way to weigh him now. I think he's about 2.5 feet very rough estimate from measuring behind the glass when he walks.. could be way off.
Here's a video from last month, the cage hasn't changed, other than the lights are big ones now, and the wood plank might have shifted slightly as is the water dish.. but those are minor changes that shouldn't affect anything..
here's a video of him last month, he looks slightly bigger today but same proportion... in the video he's already done a "spint" where I make him run around in circles for the mouse until he's too exhausted to keep going, then I let him rest a few minutes and the give him the mouse(or do it again if he still seems very energetic). This is why in the video he's not so aggressive and fast when he saw the food.. However, these 2 weeks, I can't even get him to spint for the mouse, he just doesn't have that drive anymore so without any energy draining excercise he's already moving as slow(or even slower) than in the video these 1-2 weeks..
here's the video
ebTWa7nZrbk
post a picture of the entire enclosure. 70:30 ratio , which is the dirt which is the sand? How much of the cage is empty/how heavily have you furnished it? Have you changed his feeding habits? I don't use a humidity gauge honestly. When I open the top of my enclosure, if it feels like I teleported to the equator, then I'm good.
forgot to tell you, that video was mainly for you so you can see the cage.
post a picture of the entire enclosure. 70:30 ratio , which is the dirt which is the sand? How much of the cage is empty/how heavily have you furnished it? Have you changed his feeding habits? I don't use a humidity gauge honestly. When I open the top of my enclosure, if it feels like I teleported to the equator, then I'm good.
yes when I open the cage or go in the cage to do stuff it fogs up my glasses.
murrindindi
11-12-13, 02:01 PM
I think the monitor is somewhat overweight, you need to reduce the total amount of food offered. Can you give details of exactly what you feed daily/weekly at the moment?
I also think you need to use a larger basking object and space the halogens out slightly more so it increases the area of heat.
murrindindi
11-12-13, 02:03 PM
yes when I open the cage or go in the cage to do stuff it fogs up my glasses.
If you fit small windshield wipers to the glasses they won`t fog up....:)
So you are saying I need that basking wood platform bigger? OK I'll do that.
Also for food, I honestly didn't keep track but I give him maybe 30 super worms(rough guess) and 2 mice each day. Or 30 worms and 8 smelts, or just one roughly 9 inches galunggong fish with no worms.
If I buy crickets which is maybe every 2 weeks only I buy 100 and he would eat a bunch but lose interest quickly so I stopped crickets, and we have no roaches here in canada. I tried whole shrimp but he ignores it for some reason, same as clams...
I think the monitor is somewhat overweight, you need to reduce the total amount of food offered. Can you give details of exactly what you feed daily/weekly at the moment?
I also think you need to use a larger basking object and space the halogens out slightly more so it increases the area of heat.
yeah I figure he's too big too as my other post I posted a month or so back, I was comparing to infernelis's and his are way more slim even the latest pictures... and his guys are much more faster compared to what mine is line these 1-2 weeks.
murrindindi
11-12-13, 02:33 PM
So you are saying I need that basking wood platform bigger? OK I'll do that.
Also for food, I honestly didn't keep track but I give him maybe 30 super worms(rough guess) and 2 mice each day. Or 30 worms and 8 smelts, or just one roughly 9 inches galunggong fish with no worms.
If I buy crickets which is maybe every 2 weeks only I buy 100 and he would eat a bunch but lose interest quickly so I stopped crickets, and we have no roaches here in canada. I tried whole shrimp but he ignores it for some reason, same as clams...
Are the mice adult? I think we had this conversation a couple of weeks ago and you agreed to adjust the diet by offering less rodents and more inverts (approx 50/50% of each)?
Yes, a larger basking platform and slightly more space between the bulbs.
In comparison to Wayne`s monitors yours is much heavier. In my opinion Wayne`s are a little underweight for adults (not badly so).
By reducing the total amount of food as of right now it shouldn`t be long before he/she is in decent condition (I`m not suggesting the animal is morbidly obese)!
yes I do remember, heres' the link http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varanid/102500-my-sav-too-fat.html
But you stopped talking about a response. I also did take action, but problably still isn't the right stuff.
Prior to that post I fed no insects, but only fish/mice. After the conversation I added worms to replace some. So each day there's always worms + an animal. about 3-4 days of the week is worms+mice, and the other times is worms+ fish. As you suggested 50% inverts and 50% verts. You also suggested 3-4 days rotents only and I did. Anyways it's obviously still wrong what I did that's why I need more help again.
Perhaps the ratio of what I'm feeding is ok, just need to be less? e.g. for 3-4 days it will be just 1 mouse + worms, and the remaining days will be some fish(that adds up to the volume of 1 mouse) + worms?
and yes they are adult mice.
thx
p.s. you have lots of bulbs, how big is your tank?
(I`m not suggesting the animal is morbidly obese)!
However he's really a lot slower than he used to be and not aggressive at food as before. But only one way to find out.. I'll cut down more food and observer for a couple weeks and see if it changes..
murrindindi
11-12-13, 03:05 PM
I`m having a few problems with the laptop, it takes minutes to get into the site and respond, if I don`t reply you`ll know why (it`s too late to get it fixed tonight).
I would feed 2 (two) adult mice per week, then in between mainly inverts for the time being (a fish is o.k, less fatty than rodents), the object is to reduce the total amount of food.
My enclosure is 12 x 6 (feet) and I used the walls of the house for the back and one side (though I fixed 1/2 inch ply over the wall to protect the plaster).
OK so just to confirm, I'm going to feed only 2 mice and 1 fish in total per week. And the rest is gonna be inverts, meaning worms for me, since I got nothing else he would eat.
How many super worms should I feed per day? I know I'm asking a lot of questions but if I don't fix this right, I fear for bad things happening. So please do be patient! thx
murrindindi
11-12-13, 04:13 PM
OK so just to confirm, I'm going to feed only 2 mice and 1 fish in total per week. And the rest is gonna be inverts, meaning worms for me, since I got nothing else he would eat.
How many super worms should I feed per day? I know I'm asking a lot of questions but if I don't fix this right, I fear for bad things happening. So please do be patient! thx
Yes, two mice per week and one fish. Can you find any earthworms instead of superworms?
It may be helpful if you can get an accurate length measurement.
Yes, two mice per week and one fish. Can you find any earthworms instead of superworms?
It may be helpful if you can get an accurate length measurement.
ok that should reduce lots of food intake. So how many superworms can I feed him each day? If it's 50% ratio then on the days I feed mouse/fish I would give 25-30 worms, and on the days with no mouse/fish I guess I'd feed 50-60 worms?
I have found earth worms here which I used to put in the soil, but they are $40 a bag like 1lbs only. That's too pricey to maintain...
Let me get a measurement when he's awake tomorrow, for now I think 2.5feet but tomorrow we'll know for sure.
murrindindi
11-12-13, 04:53 PM
ok that should reduce lots of food intake. So how many superworms can I feed him each day? If it's 50% ratio then on the days I feed mouse/fish I would give 25-30 worms, and on the days with no mouse/fish I guess I'd feed 50-60 worms?
I have found earth worms here which I used to put in the soil, but they are $40 a bag like 1lbs only. That's too pricey to maintain...
Let me get a measurement when he's awake tomorrow, for now I think 2.5feet but tomorrow we'll know for sure.
I would almost cut the number in half which means every food item has been reduced, obviously this is temporary until the monitor has good body condition, after that happens you will have a much better idea of how much to feed. You should not feed anything else on the days you feed the mice.
This is not sarcasm or directed just at you, but it really isn`t "rocket science", if they start to look heavy cut back on the amount of energy you offer (of course a gravid female will naturally be heavy in the body)! :)
You need to remember that almost all the food they take in goes to energy rather than to maintain a stable core body temp as in mammals and birds, which means that the amount of food is in relation to the amount of energy they use.
OK. that would be a big cut back, let's see how this goes for the next 2 weeks then! thx again.
And my guy is a guy I think. After he poos, he always walk around then pauses, and sticks his hemipenis out a few times.. it looks like a flower from mars or something I hate looking at it. I was told the flower shape means he's male?
formica
11-12-13, 05:10 PM
diffrent kinds of wood hold diffrent amounts of heat, I have 4 diffrent pieces in mine, and each reaches a diffrent temp
drift wood ~120-125
oak branch ~120-130
treated plywood ~120
cork bark ~145
so now, I use the cork bark under the lamps
all measured with the same heat lamps (3 X 35W halogen floods), at the same distance, at the same time of day (evening around 8pm), and ambient temps where the same on each day (~30-31C mid enclosure)
murrindindi
11-12-13, 05:12 PM
OK. that would be a big cut back, let's see how this goes for the next 2 weeks then! thx again.
And my guy is a guy I think. After he poos, he always walk around then pauses, and sticks his hemipenis out a few times.. it looks like a flower from mars or something I hate looking at it. I was told the flower shape means he's male?
Yes, if the hemipenes are "fancy" at the end it`s a male. It does make it somewhat easier for you because at least you won`t need to worry about having to provide a suitable nesting site (basically the whole enclosure).
Stick to the diet, otherwise it won`t work and don`t worry about him being hungry and needing to have "a little bit more", that will not help at all!
Yes, if the hemipenes are "fancy" at the end it`s a male. It does make it somewhat easier for you because at least you won`t need to worry about having to provide a suitable nesting site (basically the whole enclosure).
Stick to the diet, otherwise it won`t work and don`t worry about him being hungry and needing to have "a little bit more", that will not help at all!
Right, perhaps I just slipped into the american diet for him, meaning he should eat until he's full. But that's not how nature works. Just eat till you are not starving should be more like it.
I hope the over feeding is the issue. Only time will tell..
thx
updated the cage so the basking platform is bigger and spread out the lights...
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rJcgFGcChMM/UoPHBXQAGnI/AAAAAAAAV2M/SDZz-MuyQpI/w1054-h790-no/IMG_20131113_113750.jpg
formica
11-13-13, 02:44 PM
stil looks like 3 separate hot spots to me, i'd raise them personally for a more even distribution of heat
I'm having trouble with that though. If I raise it higher it won't be as hot anymore.. so I think I'll have to make them closer to each other.
stil looks like 3 separate hot spots to me, i'd raise them personally for a more even distribution of heat
formica
11-13-13, 03:37 PM
I'm having trouble with that though. If I raise it higher it won't be as hot anymore.. so I think I'll have to make them closer to each other.
did you see my list of temperatures and wood types on the previous page? I use Cork for exactly this reason, it allows for a good basking temp without having to use lots of power - I am using only 35W floods
experiment with diffrent woods, or perhaps even stone, which will hold even more heat
infernalis
11-13-13, 04:28 PM
are you sure they are not spotlight bulbs?
murrindindi
11-13-13, 05:12 PM
I think they do look more like spot than flood bulbs, but it may just be that the distance is relatively short so the beam isn`t as wide?
I personally would have tried 75w (and fit a dimmer switch), at least you could raise them a little more which should widen the beams and still get a decent surface temp. I don`t think it would be money wasted on the current bulbs because during the warmer weather next year you might still make use of them.
Edit: Is the new basking shelf sealed, it looks like bare wood?
I'm sure it's flood light, pretty sure, but i threw the boxes away already so no way to be sure 100%. Either way, I guess I'll go get the 75w... not sure how to install a dimmer though.
also that's just bare plywood. is that a problem?
formica
11-14-13, 11:05 AM
its pretty easy to tell the diffrence between flood and spot, spot lights have a smooth reflector (like a mirror), and the glass on the front is clear and smooth; flood lights tend to have either a diffused/frosted or bubbled glass front, and the reflector is usually not smooth like a mirror, but may have bubbles or some other effect which spreads the light
its pretty easy to tell the diffrence between flood and spot, spot lights have a smooth reflector (like a mirror), and the glass on the front is clear and smooth; flood lights tend to have either a diffused/frosted or bubbled glass front, and the reflector is usually not smooth like a mirror, but may have bubbles or some other effect which spreads the light
thx! it's flood then, the glass is distorted like my small floods.
formica
11-14-13, 11:19 AM
the other thing to note, is the angle at which they distribute the light, even floods can be quite narrow beam width compared to what is needed for a basking area - obviously if you dont know the angle of these ones, its going to be hit and miss - but if you measure the diameter of the widest part, and buy a slightly wider one, that would be a good place to start
for basking areas closer to the lights, i've personally found that the diffused/frosted bulbs distribute the heat a bit better, thats what I am using in my enclosure - the ones with bubbled fronts gave hot spots similar to what I am seeing in your pic above
murrindindi
11-14-13, 04:15 PM
Hi, I use the 75w "Sylvania Hi-spot 95" 30% flood (the 95 is mm diameter), and mine are approx. 50cm above the basking surface which gives me a decent spread of heat/light.
Edit: The glue used to fix the layers of plywood together is toxic, so if they happen to slightly open with the heat and humidity it might cause a problem over time, better to seal it with a couple of coats of water based varnish. If you can get the quick drying type it would be ready to use in 2 or 3 hours.
Are the bulb fixtures ceramic?
shiit... i didn't know that about the plywood and toxic... I think I might replace the whole thing with some other wood instead....
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