Feeding in seperate enclosure

[AS_Legion]

I was at a breeder (ball pythons and corns) over the weekend that also breeds his own feeder mice and rats. After we talked for a while I mentioned that I want to get a larger snake, either a BCI or a CCP.

The breeder said that they used to breed with them but stopped as the snakes (under his opinion) will always get aggressive and start biting when they are older.

Just before leaving, the breeder mentioned that I should use a seperate tub to feed them.... and this got me thinking... could that be the reason that the snakes got aggressive?

I am fairly new to the trade but always fed my snake in its own enclosure. Also a lot of people say that tub feeding is 'old school' and has since proven wrong.

What are your guys' opinion on this? Could the tub feeding make larger (normally more docile) snakes aggressive?

[DeadlyDesires]

tub feeding is a preference more than anything.. i personally don't think either way makes much of a difference... however you probably should just feed in the enclosure unless you have your snakes in the same enclosure (not recommended). mine get fed inside their cages..never had any problems yet

[formica]

snakes are individuals, you cannot say for sure that one will or will not become aggressive (most likley defensive, not aggresive either way), and vice versa - sounds like he was just unfortunete in the snakes he owned - that said, breeders do not always keep their snakes as pets, wouldnt suprise me if his boa's spent most of their time in solitary with little contact, in which case it is no suprise that they become defensive.


feeding in a separate tub, imo, is simply adding stress - the main concern people have is impaction, but with correct setup, this should not ever be an issue

[KORBIN5895]

I keep all of my snakes in"solitary" and seldom interact with them other than food water and cleaning. My cranky ones are still cranky and my laid back ones are still laid back. While I think that handling them can help tame them I don't believe that it really plays that big of a role in their personality.

As for why this guy was getting bit I would say it had more to do with trying to handle a large snake in feed mode.

[kwhitlock]

I read the same thing when I first started, after trying it a few times, I found my snake refused to leave the feed box to go back into her enclosure. I said screw it, not worth it. So I'm feeding them inside of their enclosure now, and I'm going to start hook training to help with aggressiveness. Talked to a breeder at the local expo Saturday, he had some red tails that were the biggest babies I have ever seen, he also said that it would help with nervous snakes that run soon as you touch them. How much of it's true, I have yet to know, but it's worth a shot!

[knox]

Do what you want! The snakes have no preference, although I would say they might not enjoy being handled with a full belly to be moved back to their enclosure.

I do both, depending on whether it's cleaning day or not. But mostly, I feed in their enclosure. I have never had a mellow snake become cage aggressive. Nor have I had an aggressive snake become mellow based on where I feed them.

[AS_Legion]

Thanks for all the replies. Gives me lots of food for thought.

@ kwhitlock: What do you mean by hook training?

Do you know any website specifically for this?
(please noone answer 'Google'. I would much rather have a reliable source that is recommended by a member than read 10 different opinions and methods. Thanks)

[DeadlyDesires]

if you search the forum and type in hooktraining you will find some very good threads and videos within them to help you get a better understanding.. basically its using a hook to help let your snake know you arent food and are going to touch them so they aren't in feeding mode.. its great for aggressive snakes as well.

[Sharlynn93]

i read that if using eco earth you shouldn't feed in the enclosure due to possible ingestion and impaction? i just switched to eco earth and wonder if i should use feeding tubs now?

[DeadlyDesires]

if your snake is healthy and cared for with proper heat and humidity they should not get impacted.

[AS_Legion]

Hi Deadly,

thanks for the heads up :)

I am really enjoying this forum as it is a lot more active than most. By some you wait for ages for a response.

[Sharlynn93]

thanks, DD...right now she eats live (just got her) so its probably not really an issue, but i am going to try and switch her to f/t so those may pick up substrate more...

[TarantulaSteve]

I was originally told to feed outside the enclosure so the snake never associates your entering the enclosure with feeding, and much the same way they can learn to associate certain things with feeding time, a feeding bin is one of them. Id love to say I know my red tail goes into feeding mode the second shes in her bin, but I could be misinterpreting her behaviour.

[formica]

I have always used long tongs to feed, my hands do not enter the enclosures on feeding day, so there is no association to be made between me and the food

[Terranaut]

Same here ,20"tongs. My hand never enters unless handling.

[Darkbird]

If you never get them out and never interact except to feed they can become conditioned to go into feed mode anytime the door opens. Takes a long time to get this way though. My personal opinion is that it not worth the stress on the keeper or animal to try and handle them to get them back in the cage afterward.

[exwizard]

If you never get them out and never interact except to feed they can become conditioned to go into feed mode anytime the door opens. Takes a long time to get this way though. My personal opinion is that it not worth the stress on the keeper or animal to try and handle them to get them back in the cage afterward.

This exactly! The key to having tame snakes is to interact with them regularly, definitely more frequent than just feeding time. Feeding in the enclosure they consider home is easier on you and your snake.

[drumcrush]

I only feed my king in a separate tub. My garters I feed in their enclosure.

[marvelfreak]

I have always used long tongs to feed, my hands do not enter the enclosures on feeding day, so there is no association to be made between me and the food

Same here ,20"tongs. My hand never enters unless handling.

Tongs the hell are those? lol I try tongs once the snake hit so hard it hurt itself on the tongs and i said forget that. I just crack the door and drop it in really fast. Why you think rats and mice have tail?:D

[formica]

Tongs the hell are those? lol I try tongs once the snake hit so hard it hurt itself on the tongs and i said forget that. I just crack the door and drop it in really fast. Why you think rats and mice have tail?:D


they are called ''long reach tongs'', great for holding the rodent by its tail, I like to give my snakes a bit of a chase, these are a great way to do it, never had a snake strike at the tong itself

http://i44.tinypic.com/53pj6g.jpg

[JWFugle]

i used to feed in separate tub and with tongs but some how the tongs got smaller during the first year of my baby retics life lol :P (16"to now 6ft) and now i just put the rat in a smaller tub and *very quickly* put the tub in her cage, and remove it once she is gone and resting.

best of both worlds IMO no worry of impaction in mini tub, and its still in her cage
my 2 cents

[Chris72]

Some guys like feeding in a different enclosure but it is not required.

On handling:
Kevin hit it on the head when he mentioned trying to handle animals in feeding mode. You have to respect that. It's not a puppy.

Since they are animals (not toys) some....of mine anyway....get into feeding mode if anything is near the tub so I pull those out with a big hook and things are ok from there.

Others need the smell of a rodent in the air to get into feeding mode.

I don't find that to be age / size dependent. I have animals under 1000g who will strike if I don't use a hook....also animals over 7lbs I can tap on the nose with my finger tip and they seem to know it's not chow time.

On feeding:
Know your animals and respect them as individuals, no need to add the extra step of a feeding enclosure. One of the senses used is "seeing" the heat signature of the prey item. If they are in feed mode you want the heat of your hand as far from your animal as Possable.

Most times.....a bite is handler error not an aggressive animal.

(Get a hook and some long hemostats and life will get better)

.

[Chris72]

(Edit - iPad cut out, then double posted)

[HouseHerp]

I've seen more aggression from tub feeding than I have from in tank feeding- but I think that's namely because people that tub feed usually don't handle their snakes on a regular basis. I noticed that aggression in general seems to stem more from lack of interaction than the feeding itself.
Our ATB would bite any time a hand was in his cage, then only if he smelled food, now he wont bite even if I still smell like food and am cleaning his cage out. The main reason is because he gets handled almost every day (other than the day of and the day after feeding, and during shed). He no longer associates the tank opening with feeding. It's the same with all our animals- be they snakes, lizards, etc. Since we handle them a lot, we don't have to worry about being bit during the feeding frenzy.
Just my experience and opinion.

[shaunyboy]

i only handle my Carpets when its 100% neccesary.....

i have found the calm ones remain calm their whole lives, and the biters remain bitey

that said,i have calmed nippy hatchlings down for other people by handling

cheers shaun