IBD maybe??

[ErikBush97]

Hi, everyone. Cupcake has an intense head wobble, star gazes very often (only when I hold her). Those are the only symptoms I see but it's scary... Will a vet be able to diagnose her if she does in fact have IBD?

[Zoo Nanny]

Erik if you think there is a chance that she may have IBD then you need to postpone buying any other snakes until you get her to the vet.

[ErikBush97]

Erik if you think there is a chance that she may have IBD then you need to postpone buying any other snakes until you get her to the vet.

She has an appointment today at 4:30 PM. (It's 2:00 right now). I really hope the vet can prove me wrong about my suspicion... And thank goodness for quarantine

[MDT]

Cytology for the inclusion bodies (Inclusion Body Disease) and possibly serum markers?

Sounds like you may already have your answer tho...I'm not a boa guy, so hopefully someone else can lend a hand..

[MDT]

Reptile vets work Saturdays?

[marvelfreak]

If it has a IBD i hope it not near your other snakes. Years ago i got a boa that had it and it was the last snake to die. It wiped out all my snakes Boa's, Burmese's and Balls. This is why i quarantine and i very picky who i buy from.

Could you please post video.

[ErikBush97]

If it has a IBD i hope it not near your other snakes. Years ago i got a boa that had it and it was the last snake to die. It wiped out all my snakes Boa's, Burmese's and Balls. This is why i quarantine and i very picky who i buy from.

Could you please post video.

I am quarantining her.

[ErikBush97]

Reptile vets work Saturdays?

Yup.

Southwest Animal Hospital (http://www.swanimalhospital.net/)

[ErikBush97]

If it has a IBD i hope it not near your other snakes. Years ago i got a boa that had it and it was the last snake to die. It wiped out all my snakes Boa's, Burmese's and Balls. This is why i quarantine and i very picky who i buy from.

Could you please post video.

Video of what?

[Mikoh4792]

I am quarantining her.

I don't mean to assume you don't already know this,(just watching out for your snake)

but by quarantine that means you have to fully clean yourself after going near her by taking a shower and a new set of clothes(after cleaning, feeding...etc), and use different tools(tongs, snake hooks..etc).

She has to be isolated in the full sense.

[Mikoh4792]

Video of what?

of her IBD symptoms

[marvelfreak]

Video of what?
Of the head wobble and star gazing.

[ErikBush97]

I don't mean to assume you don't already know this,(just watching out for your snake)

but by quarantine that means you have to fully clean yourself after going near her by taking a shower and a new set of clothes(after cleaning, feeding...etc), and use different tools(tongs, snake hooks..etc).

She has to be isolated in the full sense.

I go check on my other snakes, and then I check on her afterward, then I change my clothes and stay away from my other five snakes. I am not risking anything since I the majority of my snakes are pythons and boas.

[ErikBush97]

Of the head wobble and star gazing.

Well I'm just about the leave to the vet. I will post a video as soon as I get back.

When she star gazes she extends her head out towards the ceiling and doesn't move. She just sit there with about two feet of her head and neck extended.
When she wobbles her head, she shakes very very (very) fast. Sometimes back and forth, sometimes up and down.

[KORBIN5895]

Well if she does have ibd you will need to put your breeding plans on hold for a minimum of a year after she passes. I would also euthanize the remainder of your collection or spend big bucks to get them tested if you plan on breeding.

[Aaron_S]

Well if she does have ibd you will need to put your breeding plans on hold for a minimum of a year after she passes. I would also euthanize the remainder of your collection or spend big bucks to get them tested if you plan on breeding.

Beat me to it.

Your collection will be on LOCKDOWN. Don't risk it and put other's collections at risk too.

Your reputation will be ruined.

[ErikBush97]

The vet says she's sure that Cupcake doesnt have IBD but they did a blood test just to be safe.

She's perfectly healthy as far as the vets can tell.

[KORBIN5895]

Your vet isn't capable of testing for ibd.

[ErikBush97]

Your vet isn't capable of testing for ibd.

What do you mean?

[KORBIN5895]

I mean ibd only has two viable test options. One is post mortem and the other is only done at a specific lab iirc. You would also need three tests to verify it. Contact snakesitter about the testing.

[marvelfreak]

I hate to say it but if it is IBD your going to have to put it down and save it from suffering.
Please post video. I had to watch almost a dozen of my snakes die from it and i just want to see if your is doing the same thing mine did before dieing. One of the things mine did was after a few days of the first signs of star gazing and head wobble their bodies started to like kink up and it got harder and harder for them to move or stretch in anyway. They couldn't even left their heads to get a drink by the end.

[LarryS]

That must have been a horrible thing to see your animals go through Marvel. Sorry for your loss.

Erik I hope your vet is right and it's not IBD. Best of luck.

[Hannibalcanibal]

As far as i know... the only accurate test for IBD is post mortem.

Also, no breeding for a year after she passes, no new snakes, no selling your current snakes, and be especially careful with colubrids, as they are thought to carry the disease without showing symptoms.

[Corey209]

As far as i know... the only accurate test for IBD is post mortem.

Also, no breeding for a year after she passes, no new snakes, no selling your current snakes, and be especially careful with colubrids, as they are thought to carry the disease without showing symptoms.

As someone already said, you can have IBD tested on a live snake for a price.

[Hannibalcanibal]

As someone already said, you can have IBD tested on a live snake for a price.

Ah, i see. Must have missed that.

[ErikBush97]

They said they can test with a blood test. Either way I'll upload a video today. She honestly doesn't do either of those things often. 90% of the time it's when I'm handling her

[Aaron_S]

They said they can test with a blood test. Either way I'll upload a video today. She honestly doesn't do either of those things often. 90% of the time it's when I'm handling her

Yeah? I have x-ray vision. It's true because I said it.

[Corey209]

Yeah? I have x-ray vision. It's true because I said it.

In his defense, a vet is someone you should be able to trust and believe without questioning. Although not always true, they did go to school for 8 years so from someone unknowing like myself I would probably have believed the vet.

[Aaron_S]

In his defense, a vet is someone you should be able to trust and believe without questioning. Although not always true, they did go to school for 8 years so from someone unknowing like myself I would probably have believed the vet.

It's common knowledge to seek second opinions with human doctors. Why would animal doctors be different? Especially with the fact most vets know nothing about reptiles.

If it's IBD maybe the lead doctor in the Country should have been contacted on what to do?

[Corey209]

It's common knowledge to seek second opinions with human doctors. Why would animal doctors be different? Especially with the fact most vets know nothing about reptiles.

If it's IBD maybe the lead doctor in the Country should have been contacted on what to do?

I don't know a single person who seeks second opinions after seeing their main physician but I was assuming this person saw a reptile vet, as that's the only logical thing to do with a reptile.

[Zoo Nanny]

The University of Florida in Miami has developed blood test for IBD. They also explain in this article that the test is not conclusive and should be done a second time 90 days later. Still is not 100% accurate. As far as I know this is one of the only institutions that has ongoing research for reptile diseases. Their prices are not that bad. Precious' blood work was completed here.
Inclusion Body Disease of Boid Snakes » Diagnostic Laboratories » College of Veterinary Medicine » University of Florida (http://labs.vetmed.ufl.edu/sample-requirements/microbiology-parasitology-serology/zoo-med-infections/boid-ibd/)

[Zoo Nanny]

I don't know a single person who seeks second opinions after seeing their main physician but I was assuming this person saw a reptile vet, as that's the only logical thing to do with a reptile.

Corey when Precious got sick not only did I seek out a second opinion but so did the vet. There were at least 6 vets consulting on him. Good vets as well as good human doctors will always seek additional opinions, it's what makes them good.

[Corey209]

Corey when Precious got sick not only did I seek out a second opinion but so did the vet. There were at least 6 vets consulting on him. Good vets as well as good human doctors will always seek additional opinions, it's what makes them good.

That's great and everyone should get second opinions with their reptiles, but going to 6 different vets isn't an option for a lot of people. The cheapest out of like 10 vets here is $60 for a visit with reptiles, no way in hell I'd spend $600 for 6 different check-ups.

[Terranaut]

If it is IBD you have big problems. Chances are all of your snakes will infected if in the same house. It would be best to assume they are anyway. You need to post a short video. Also if it is IBD the person you got the snake from has a big problem as well. For now you should not visit anyone with reptiles or allow them to visit you.
Good luck.

[ErikBush97]

Btw: the vet I went to is a reptile vet. I'll post a video once I actually see her doing it again

[Zoo Nanny]

That's great and everyone should get second opinions with their reptiles, but going to 6 different vets isn't an option for a lot of people. The cheapest out of like 10 vets here is $60 for a visit with reptiles, no way in hell I'd spend $600 for 6 different check-ups.

You totally missed the point here or I didn't explain well enough. I did not take him to 6 different vets they consulted with each other and myself via phone and email. I paid one vet. Good vets that want to learn will contact other vets for their opinions. That is what happened in our case and I was able to contact another vet that is a friend of mine who consulted with my vet. And I spent well over $600 at one vets

[Corey209]

You totally missed the point here or I didn't explain well enough. I did not take him to 6 different vets they consulted with each other and myself via phone and email. I paid one vet. Good vets that want to learn will contact other vets for their opinions. That is what happened in our case and I was able to contact another vet that is a friend of mine who consulted with my vet. And I spent well over $600 at one vets

Well... you have some great vets then, I don't know of any who will put in so much effort.

[DeadlyDesires]

just so we are clear, you said it doesn't happen 90% of the time.. are you sure its not weakness? what you were explaining my snake has done before i also have a bci, deff not ibd there i've had her since a baby and shes growing healthy and fine.. but when she was a little younger and she would slither through my hands her body would vibrate a little like shaking and her head did it as well... i wasn't sure what it was really but i assumed that either the position i had her in was a little harder for her to move or it was normal she doesn't do it now that shes bigger. i would let yours out and slither around on the ground if its ibd you will deff see something wrong.

[Aaron_S]

Well... you have some great vets then, I don't know of any who will put in so much effort.

You need to expand your circle of people lol

[Valvaren]

Corey you really know some crappy vets.

[Corey209]

The only ones available in the Central Valley lol...

Did anyone hear GBU Enterprises sold their shop to Misfit Petz?
https://www.facebook.com/misfitpetz

[Zoo Nanny]

Well... you have some great vets then, I don't know of any who will put in so much effort.

I don't know any vets that won't go the extra length. Have you bothered to ask your vet if he has consulted with others? Oh and these vets were not just from Massachusetts, three were from different parts of the country.

[Corey209]

I don't any vets that won't go the extra length. Have you bothered to ask your vet if he has consulted with others? Oh and these vets were not just from Massachusetts, three were from different parts of the country.

Have not, they never mentioned it and didn't know vets would do that.

[Aaron_S]

Have not, they never mentioned it and didn't know vets would do that.

As already stated all good professionals seek additional help. The good ones know they can't know everything so they ask colleagues. I do it in my profession as well. I can't know everything.

[ErikBush97]

just so we are clear, you said it doesn't happen 90% of the time.. are you sure its not weakness? what you were explaining my snake has done before i also have a bci, deff not ibd there i've had her since a baby and shes growing healthy and fine.. but when she was a little younger and she would slither through my hands her body would vibrate a little like shaking and her head did it as well... i wasn't sure what it was really but i assumed that either the position i had her in was a little harder for her to move or it was normal she doesn't do it now that shes bigger. i would let yours out and slither around on the ground if its ibd you will deff see something wrong.

She doesn't do it on the ground. Only while being held. I thought maybe it's because her next is in the air so she was trying to balance but idk. Just seems different than how my other snakes do that.

[Mikoh4792]

She doesn't do it on the ground. Only while being held. I thought maybe it's because her next is in the air so she was trying to balance but idk. Just seems different than how my other snakes do that.

Could be that she is weak or it's hard for her to balance since she is 7ft and judging by the pictures she looks fat(by this I mean overweight).

But let's not jump to conclusions. A video of you handling her might help.

[ErikBush97]

Could be that she is weak or it's hard for her to balance since she is 7ft and judging by the pictures she looks fat(by this I mean overweight).

But let's not jump to conclusions. A video of you handling her might help.

It's hard for me to say... She's 7ft, 18 LBS. that sounds way over weight, but there's no scale spacing (as there is with most fat snakes), but she is also a lot more squishy than firm so... Idk. Previous owner gave her jumbos... (Don't even give my 8 ft Dumeril's jumbos)

[lady_bug87]

maybe some weight loss would help.

[ErikBush97]

I filmed me holder her earlier but she didn't do anything, so I'll try again right now.

[ErikBush97]

maybe some weight loss would help.

I agree. It's not going to take long.... Fastest, squirmiest 7 ft BCI I have ever seen...

[Mikoh4792]

Is anyone here experienced with growing boas from hatchlings to adulthood? Do boas become overweight easily?

And does enclosure size/handling frequency have anything to do with this?

(For example if enclosure is too small it doesn't stimulate any activity such as roaming, climbing, stretching out...etc and not taking out to handle or explore contributes to weight gain and strength loss)

[ErikBush97]

Well I know that the owner kept her in a 3'x1½' tote and was afraid to handle her, so that makes sense.. Hopefully someone can answer those questions.

[Mikoh4792]

Well I know that the owner kept her in a 3'x1½' tote and was afraid to handle her, so that makes sense.. Hopefully someone can answer those questions.

Did you say she was a rescue? Sure sounds like one and it's good that you took her in.

[Terranaut]

Boas kept in their enclosures can become fat. They need either large enclosures to exercise in , come out and play for exercise or be in a diet to ensure they don't over eat. Now add a way to small enclosure and a persin who is afraid to handle the boa and you end up with a marshmellow boa and not the loaf of bread look. It's not that they are hard to look after or anything but when people don't take care of any snake with wrong methods....well we all know what can happen right ? :)

[ErikBush97]

She has another BCI, and she's surprised that Cupcake turned out "mean", but tbh... If both snakes are kept that way I'm surprised the other one isn't. Anyways... I'm going to film me and Cupcake and you can give your opinion from there. She's probably hungry by now so let's hope she plays nice today.

[Mikoh4792]

She has another BCI, and she's surprised that Cupcake turned out "mean", but tbh... If both snakes are kept that way I'm surprised the other one isn't.

Maybe it's because she takes the nicer one out more... but still sad to see a person keep a full grown colombian in a 3x1.5

[ErikBush97]

This is the size enclosure she was in. I have her in that, but that's only because I'm quarantining her.

[ErikBush97]

So... I got a video but she acted completely normal

[DeadlyDesires]

you could get her a bigger enclosure even if its only for quarantining... in there she has no way to get to hot or cold side just one temp because she is so big.. im sorry but if you can't get her in a proper quarantine enclosure why are you getting another snake? and if you are concerned for IBD why are you still getting another snake? IMO your choices are not very smart at this moment.

[DeadlyDesires]

where is her food, water, substrate?

[ErikBush97]

where is her food, water, substrate?

I was cleaning the poopy aspen out of her other tub. (Thank goodness I bought two tubs)

[ErikBush97]

you could get her a bigger enclosure even if its only for quarantining... in there she has no way to get to hot or cold side just one temp because she is so big.. im sorry but if you can't get her in a proper quarantine enclosure why are you getting another snake? and if you are concerned for IBD why are you still getting another snake? IMO your choices are not very smart at this moment.

I'll order a bigger tote (6' long) on the 7th
And I'm not concerned about IBD at this point. The vet are trustworthy, imo, and as far as I know she's just deprived of exercise. I can post a video of her if you'd like to diagnose her yourself. If you suspect IBD, I will not get anymore snakes.

[ErikBush97]

I am still concerned about it obviously because it's serious but I don't think she has it.

[DeadlyDesires]

whatever... do what you want.. if you endanger your own snakes that's not my problem.. you you shouldn't be acquiring them so fast either or you'll surely bring something that you missed.. either way. you can buy a tote that will fit your boa for about less than 20 bucks and it would still be better than that small tote you have her in.

[ErikBush97]

whatever... do what you want.. if you endanger your own snakes that's not my problem.. you you shouldn't be acquiring them so fast either or you'll surely bring something that you missed.. either way. you can buy a tote that will fit your boa for about less than 20 bucks and it would still be better than that small tote you have her in.

1. If you know what IBD symptoms look like, I'll upload the videos... You choose
2. Re read my last post...
Pay day = Money.
Money = Tote.

[Mikoh4792]

1. If you know what IBD symptoms look like, I'll upload the videos... You choose
2. Re read my last post...
Pay day = Money.
Money = Tote.

Can you upload the videos?

[DeadlyDesires]

you seem to be missing the point... even if your snake doesn't have IBD you are still risking your whole collection at this point by purchasing shakes so fast... you could very well miss something and put your entire collection in danger. that is the point of quarantine. and NO i don't know what IBD looks like only know the symptoms and if you said she doesn't do it all the time then your "normal" video will be of no help for a diagnosis. either way you should be waiting a whole lot longer than you have to introduce another snake into your collections.. a lot of illnesses can arise later rather then sooner.

[DeadlyDesires]

and about your "last post" you said you would order one thats why i said you could get a tote.. would be faster than ordering one..

[ErikBush97]

and about your "last post" you said you would order one thats why i said you could get a tote.. would be faster than ordering one..

No stores within 20 miles (or farther) sell totes big enough for a 7-8' red tail to feel comfortable in.

[ErikBush97]

you seem to be missing the point... even if your snake doesn't have IBD you are still risking your whole collection at this point by purchasing shakes so fast... you could very well miss something and put your entire collection in danger. that is the point of quarantine. and NO i don't know what IBD looks like only know the symptoms and if you said she doesn't do it all the time then your "normal" video will be of no help for a diagnosis. either way you should be waiting a whole lot longer than you have to introduce another snake into your collections.. a lot of illnesses can arise later rather then sooner.

How does getting snakes fast effect anything? If I buy two snakes in ten years, I could still miss something and risk my collection. You take that risk every single time you buy any snake.

[DeadlyDesires]

ok, im finished. enjoy your snakes.. i hope they are all healthy

[ErikBush97]

ok, im finished. enjoy your snakes.. i hope they are all healthy

I didn't mean to argue. I just don't see how time in between purchasing snakes effects one of them compromising my collection.

[DeadlyDesires]

Oh No! How to Protect Your Snakes - Quarantine - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com (http://voices.yahoo.com/oh-no-protect-snakes-quarantine-6631188.html)

[ErikBush97]

... I can quarantine my Albino. I wouldn't get a snake if I couldn't quarantine it by itself

[KORBIN5895]

Where are you quarantining this snake?

[KORBIN5895]

Hi, everyone. Cupcake has an intense head wobble, star gazes very often (only when I hold her). Those are the only symptoms I see but it's scary... Will a vet be able to diagnose her if she does in fact have IBD?

How did you go from Stargazes often to seldom?

[marvelfreak]

Wow where to begin. First off some snake mainly boas take longer to show signs of IBD. In my case the new snake BCI i had gotten was the carrier and the last to show signs(so i thought) and die. What i didn't realize was actually he had showed signs when i first got him but i dismissed it, because then he acted fine. When i first got him the second day actually he sat there for almost two hours star gazing. His head 2.5 feet straight up in the air swaying back and forth. So i called the pet store and asked if this was normal and was told not really. The guy said if it did it again i could bring it back and get my money. Never did it again until 9 of my other snakes had already died. A couple months go by then all hell breaks loose.

Funny thing about IBD it can lay dormant for some time especially in boas. Now Python it's another story. My first snake to show signs and die was a Ball Python (RIP Sid Vicious). Then another Ball and a Burmese. With my pythons it was bam one right after another in a month's time. The problem i had back then over 15 years ago was only one vet would look at snake around here. He didn't know much about snake diseases, but me and him both got educated by the end of it all. The big problem was by the time he figured out what it was it was to late. God i wish they would have had internet back then, but even then not much was known about it.

After all my Balls and Burmese died then my three Boas started showing signs. So i had the last couple put down. We are 99% sure it was the new boa i had gotten that had it because he was the only snake in my collection at the time that i hadn't had for over a year.

Even now the test are not 100% sure until the snakes died. So why chance it. I would put all your plans on hold for a few month. Do you really want to put all your money in to new high dollar snake just to chance them dieing and you losing all your money. What you need to do is figure out for sure what wrong with this snake first and foremost. Who knows what you saw could be a early warning sign or nothing but why take that risk?


On another note you said it only does it when you hold it. Could be a reaction to something you have come in contact with or are wearing. Plus a video would really help i just want to see if when it does it it looks anything like mine did when they started showing sign.

[thinkbig317]

Best of luck! Poor cupcake! ;(

[ErikBush97]

Wow where to begin. First off some snake mainly boas take longer to show signs of IBD. In my case the new snake BCI i had gotten was the carrier and the last to show signs(so i thought) and die. What i didn't realize was actually he had showed signs when i first got him but i dismissed it, because then he acted fine. When i first got him the second day actually he sat there for almost two hours star gazing. His head 2.5 feet straight up in the air swaying back and forth. So i called the pet store and asked if this was normal and was told not really. The guy said if it did it again i could bring it back and get my money. Never did it again until 9 of my other snakes had already died. A couple months go by then all hell breaks loose.

Funny thing about IBD it can lay dormant for some time especially in boas. Now Python it's another story. My first snake to show signs and die was a Ball Python (RIP Sid Vicious). Then another Ball and a Burmese. With my pythons it was bam one right after another in a month's time. The problem i had back then over 15 years ago was only one vet would look at snake around here. He didn't know much about snake iseases, but me and him both got educated by the end of it all. The big problem was by the time he figured out what it was it was to late. God i wish they would have had internet back then, but even then not much was known about it.

After all my Balls and Burmese died then my three Boas started showing signs. So i had the last couple put down. We are 99% sure it was the new boa i had gotten that had it because he was the only snake in my collection at the time that i hadn't had for over a year.

Even now the test are not 100% sure until the snakes died. So why chance it. I would put all your plans on hold for a few month. Do you really want to put all your money in to new high dollar snake just to chance them dieing and you losing all your money. What you need to do is figure out for sure what wrong with this snake first and foremost. Who knows what you saw could be a early warning sign or nothing but why take that risk?


On another note you said it only does it when you hold it. Could be a reaction to something you have come in contact with or are wearing. Plus a video would really help i just want to see if when it does it it looks anything like mine did when they started showing sign.

Do they put their heads directly straight up when they stargaze and how long do they usually do it? I'm going to take your advice and wait. I'm not taking in anymore snakes for a year. If all my snakes are alive and healthy in a year, I'll start my breeding plans back up.
Plus I'm 16... I have all the time in the world. Thanks for the advice guys

[ErikBush97]

So let's say I wait it out and it's not IBD. What would be the cause of this? Think it could just something genetic, like for spiders?

[Will0W783]

ErikBush97, I just read through this thread, and I want to say I'm sorry for the worry you are going through.

One big question that I noticed that no one was asking- is your snake eating? If she is eating, has she regurgitated (vomited) at all? Regurgitation and refusal to eat are some of the most common early signs of IBD in boas. In pythons the neurological stuff usually shows up first. Boas have a much slower time course of the disease and some can in fact be asymptomatic carriers and live long healthy lives even though they will infect the rest of a collection.

I don't think it's likely that it's IBD from what you are describing- IBD tends to be more pervasive and the snake will lose proper coordination and muscle control regardless of where it is- cage, being held, etc. However, the disease is progressive and can be tricky to catch in the early stages.

This is an incredibly good website resource Inclusion Body Disease (http://www.anapsid.org/ibd.html)

You can also go on YouTube and search for inclusion body disease or IBD, or BOID and you will turn up many videos. Pay attention to ones that say in the description that it was confirmed IBD, so you aren't watching something that turns out to not be IBD.

There are a number of other illnesses and conditions that can cause stargazing and head wobble. Certain genetic mutations, such as the spider gene in ball pythons, cause it. Some spider balls are so bad they twist and knot themselves up, wobble all over like palsied eldery, and have difficulties eating.
Other viruses, like West Nile, Paramyxovirus, and Ophidian virus can also cause neurological symptoms. These viruses are usually much faster onset and progress rapidly to death.
Certain vitamin deficiencies can cause neurological problems in snakes. In that case, the bloodwork should show it and a few vitamin shots can help.

Exposure to pesticides can also cause neurological problems. Usage of "No-Pest" strips as a treatment for mites has been known to cause stargazing and incoordination in snakes exposed to it at too high of a dose or if it gets into the water. If you've been using these strips, that might be the cause.


Best of luck- keep us posted. I would continue to keep this snake quarantined and, as others have mentioned, hold off on other purchases until you know what's going on with her.

I noticed a few other members commented on buying snakes too quickly. The concern there, which I'm not sure anyone explained, is that if one is acquiring snakes very quickly, that one will run out of proper quarantine space. Each new animal has to be quarantined not only from the established collection, but from other quarantined animals. So, if you buy Snake1 in April, put it in quarantine, then buy Snake2 in May, then Snake3 in July, etc, you will run out of places to quarantine them properly and there's likely to be some cross-exposure.

All new snakes should be quarantined for a minimum of 3 months; 6 months is ideal.

[marvelfreak]

Do they put their heads directly straight up when they stargaze and how long do they usually do it? I'm going to take your advice and wait. I'm not taking in anymore snakes for a year. If all my snakes are alive and healthy in a year, I'll start my breeding plans back up.
Plus I'm 16... I have all the time in the world. Thanks for the advice guys
Yes most of the time. A couple times they would have their head at a 30 degree angle. They would lean back and sway from side to side. With the Burmese for some reason they would twitch when doing it from time to time. Has for how long any were from a couple minutes to hours. Towards the end they couldn't even move enough to do anything.

[ErikBush97]

Yes most of the time. A couple times they would have their head at a 30 degree angle. They would lean back and sway from side to side. With the Burmese for some reason they would twitch when doing it from time to time. Has for how long any were from a couple minutes to hours. Towards the end they couldn't even move enough to do anything.

She basically looks up like this. And she does it for a few minutes

[Terranaut]

So you think he may have IBD because....he sits on his coils?
Have you even looked at IBD boas on youtube to compare? Unfortunately there ate several videos of bias with IBD there.

[marvelfreak]

Sound to me like all your snake was ever doing was check out it surroundings. like i said a video would have help us help you figure it out what your describing now don't even sound like Star Gazing.

[Mikoh4792]

stargazing

http://savethereptiles.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/stargazingsnake.jpg

[Corey209]

She basically looks up like this. And she does it for a few minutes

I think all of my boas have done this regularly.

[ErikBush97]

I think all of my boas have done this regularly.

None of my other boas look up like that when I hold them

[Terranaut]

Well my auto correct auto wronged my last post..

This is IBD
n6DeY6mfrBM

[ErikBush97]

Well my auto correct auto wronged my last post..

This is IBD
n6DeY6mfrBM

:(

It's NOTHING like that.

[DeadlyDesires]

my snake sits on her perch and straightens out about 1 ft and stares at people, never stargazes upside down though. i feel that unfortunately people see their snakes upright looking around and not moving and confuse it with an early onset of IBD. I hope your girl doesn't have it. It's a horrible disease that you can not cure and its the worst sight i've ever seen :( makes me sad.