View Full Version : I need help! snake vs mouse
ErikBush97
10-04-13, 05:09 AM
Hi. I've tried to recommend my friend feed her snake frozen thawed mice (she's only had her first/only snake since about August 20th). She failed to do so and yesterday she uploaded a video of her snake eating a live meal. This snake is only a few months old, to start. Throughout the video, the mouse is clawing and biting the snake!! So I repeat myself and tell her that the mousd could've hurt, or killed her snake, and she replied with "Just because I don't do it your way doesn't mean I'm wrong". I feel terrible now for helping her pick out a snake.. I thought she was more responsible. Anyways, does anyone have any graphic images of feeding gone wrong? I know that's cruel, but if she screws up, her snake is the one who will suffer.
ErikBush97
10-04-13, 05:10 AM
By the way, I am not against feeding live, If it's done responsibly
infernalis
10-04-13, 05:13 AM
I'm sure someone will post that graphic pic of the snake that was skinned alive by a mouse.
I run into this sort of head strong behaviour in people all the time.
post a link to the youtube, here and on facebook, the comments on the video will get flooded with dislikes.
Who pre-kills their prey in the wild? Nature is cruel. Snakes get bit by prey. In turn, the prey gets a one-way tour of the digestive system of suborder Serpentes.
Having said that, and knowing that injury is possible, my snakes are too valuable (both in a personal sense AND a financial sense) to feed them live prey. Plus the fact it's a PITA to acquire live prey for my animals. A freezer of rats is a lot easier (and less smelly) to maintain than a colony of rats...
Just my 2 cents
ErikBush97
10-04-13, 05:48 AM
I'm sure someone will post that graphic pic of the snake that was skinned alive by a mouse.
I run into this sort of head strong behaviour in people all the time.
post a link to the youtube, here and on facebook, the comments on the video will get flooded with dislikes.
It's Facebook, and set to friends only :/ I just feel horrible because I'm the one that encouraged her to get a snake, and she's been taking sub par care of it. She has the ability and funding to care for the little guy correctly, but won't for some reason. We work for the same company, different branches, with about equal hours. If I can pay for five snakes, two dogs, and still buy things I want, she can most certainly pay for items she needs (thermostat, and another hide would be great), and she can surely at least supervise when she feeds. I've told her I'm only trying to help, and I've been very nice about it, but she goes right into defense mode when I suggest anything. Here's a transcript of one of our conversations
(This was about two, three weeks ago)
I still haven't bought him a thermostat, but I will sometime soon. Maybe I'll order one online this week
Uncontrolled heat mats can burn your snake, so make sure to put a Thermostaton high priority on your "things to buy" list
She then deleted my comments and sent me this PM
I know what I'm doing. I'll buy a thermostat when I am ready
SMH....
If a snake doesn't catch it's prey at the first strike in the wild, it will most likely escape and not try to fight back. In our enclosures there is no escape option and thus feeding either pre-killed or f/t (if the snake is willing) is in my opinion the most humane way to feed prey to any snake. Not necessarily due to the risk of the snake getting injured, but more due to the unnecessary stress inflicted on both snake and prey on case of live feeding...
ErikBush97
10-04-13, 05:52 AM
Who pre-kills their prey in the wild? Nature is cruel. Snakes get bit by prey. In turn, the prey gets a one-way tour of the digestive system of suborder Serpentes.
Having said that, and knowing that injury is possible, my snakes are too valuable (both in a personal sense AND a financial sense) to feed them live prey. Plus the fact it's a PITA to acquire live prey for my animals. A freezer of rats is a lot easier (and less smelly) to maintain than a colony of rats...
Just my 2 cents
I don't think value, personal or financial is relevant. It's still a living animal, even being a $15 normal. She could at the very very least, keep the mouse from scratching or biting. I always use tongs to hold the feet of any live prey I feed, and I only feed live if 1,000,000,000% unavoidable. I just made a DIY Gas chamber. Shouldn't ever have to feed live again.
Also, don't blame yourself on getting her into snakes. Hopefully she will listen at some point and things will change for the better and otherwise refer her to the forum in case of any real problems, although she probably won't last long here ;).
ErikBush97
10-04-13, 05:58 AM
Also, don't blame yourself on gettingsent into snakes. Hopefully she will listen at some point and things will change for the better and otherwise refer her to the forum in case of any real problems, although she probably won't last long here ;).
I have... she won't join any forums, either o.o
I sent sent her a ton of graphic snake pictures. I doubt half of them are from mice, but she doesn't need to know that lol Hopefully it'll make her stay away from live. I was able to first d a picture on Google of a mouse biting the crap out of a snake that appeared to be dead. Seems promising. It's 5:00 AM here (just got off work), so I doubt she's awake, but hopefully she'll get those pictures and buy frozen.
I don't think value, personal or financial is relevant. It's still a living animal, even being a $15 normal.
You may have misunderstood me...A $15 normal could be priceless to someone, meaning a personal value. I have some high end stuff that from a practical standpoint do not want damaged. I also have, what some may call "mutts"...however, personally, I wouldn't trade them for the world. That personal value.
And, please don't misunderstand, I do appreciate your being concerned w about the mouse. I do not go out of my way to be cruel, but I don't get too wrapped around the axle on feeding live stuff....I just want to keep my animals intact. Others may see things differently....
ErikBush97
10-04-13, 06:08 AM
You may have misunderstood me...A $15 normal could be priceless to someone, meaning a personal value. I have some high end stuff that from a practical standpoint do not want damaged. I also have, what some may call "mutts"...however, personally, I wouldn't trade them for the world. That personal value.
And, please don't misunderstand, I do appreciate your being concerned w about the mouse. I do not go out of my way to be cruel, but I don't get too wrapped around the axle on feeding live stuff....I just want to keep my animals intact. Others may see things differently....
Ahh, I misunderstood you there. I am only going out of my way to be cruel to hopefully get my point across. I am not normally worried about feeding live, but seeing that mouse claw and bite her snake, and her not doing a thing about it really worried me.
Awaiting Abyss
10-04-13, 04:10 PM
Its not only cruel for the snake, but its cruel for the mouse. In the wild they have the chance to escape. Can you imagine what its like for that mouse to be put in a bin with a snake? It knows there is nowhere to run or hide; its last hope is to fight for its life.
Aaron_S
10-04-13, 04:18 PM
Its not only cruel for the snake, but its cruel for the mouse. In the wild they have the chance to escape. Can you imagine what its like for that mouse to be put in a bin with a snake? It knows there is nowhere to run or hide; its last hope is to fight for its life.
You're far off.
I find mice and rats go up and sniff the snake. Sometimes even the face and then they get eaten. These prey items are born and raised in captivity for generations. They don't know what a predator is or to be afraid of anything.
Aaron_S
10-04-13, 04:20 PM
I don't think value, personal or financial is relevant. It's still a living animal, even being a $15 normal. She could at the very very least, keep the mouse from scratching or biting. I always use tongs to hold the feet of any live prey I feed, and I only feed live if 1,000,000,000% unavoidable. I just made a DIY Gas chamber. Shouldn't ever have to feed live again.
It's okay to feed live. What isn't okay is to be cruel and hold prey items like that. It's a slight step down from the people who have said pull the teeth or claws out prior to feeding the rat off.
Feeding live isn't trouble. Very rarely does a snake actually get harmed. It's usually only harmed if they are left in for a prolonged period of time.
You mentioned the teeth pulling with rats. My boyfriend insists that you have to do this with feeding live and that I should start feeding my IJ live because it's healthier. Sometimes I think he's a bit off with his snake knowledge...is he right or no?
Mikoh4792
10-04-13, 04:26 PM
You mentioned the teeth pulling with rats. My boyfriend insists that you have to do this with feeding live and that I should start feeding my IJ live because it's healthier. Sometimes I think he's a bit off with his snake knowledge...is he right or no?
How can you even do that without the rats squirming and going crazy. Isn't there a lot of bleeding when you snap the rats teeth out of its mouth?
How can you even do that without the rats squirming and going crazy. Isn't there a lot of bleeding when you snap the rats teeth out of its mouth?
exactly what I was thinking. He just always likes to be right, even if he knows I'm right.
You mentioned the teeth pulling with rats. My boyfriend insists that you have to do this with feeding live and that I should start feeding my IJ live because it's healthier. Sometimes I think he's a bit off with his snake knowledge...is he right or no?
....that's a "no"
He is incorrect on both accounts
....that's a "no"
He is incorrect on both accounts
thanks. he thinks he knows everything. May I say, a know-it-all. ;P
Mikoh4792
10-04-13, 04:32 PM
thanks. he thinks he knows everything. May I say, a know-it-all. ;P
Break up with him and get a boyfriend who knows what he's doing. Lol just kidding. But pulling teeth is a little over the top in my opinion. Why not just feed prekilled in that case.
Break up with him and get a boyfriend who knows what he's doing. Lol just kidding. But pulling teeth is a little over the top in my opinion. Why not just feed prekilled in that case.
;) I was planning on doing that anyway.
(feeding f/t. Not breaking up with him. ;) )
Awaiting Abyss
10-04-13, 04:44 PM
You're far off.
I find mice and rats go up and sniff the snake. Sometimes even the face and then they get eaten. These prey items are born and raised in captivity for generations. They don't know what a predator is or to be afraid of anything.
Rodents have instincts. They know what to fear and what not to. I've owned, watched and studied various rodents since I was a small child. I noticed a change in mine when I brought the snake into their room. They eventually got used to the new addition since they realized it was not going to harm them. They reacted the same when I first got indoor cats.
Starbuck
10-04-13, 05:33 PM
How can you even do that without the rats squirming and going crazy. Isn't there a lot of bleeding when you snap the rats teeth out of its mouth?
exactly :/ :/ :/ :/
i cant even believe i just read that... What an incredibly inhumane and cruel practice. We all have probably been to the dentist, even getting a cavity filled can be excruciating, i cant imagine someone actually breaking off your teeth. The difference isn a) we know what is going on and b) we often have lidocaine, novicaine, etc, to diminish the pain.
. The difference between humans and rodents is that their teeth are much more firmly rooted in their skulls http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4543221906933931&pid=15.1 incredibly painful, i'm still in shock :no:
we dont need to make any special provisions for our snakes, if you dont want your snake to get bit, dont feed live. bottom line: snakes have BEEN eating live animals since before homo sapiens even showed up, we dont need to do them any favors :P
Aaron_S
10-04-13, 05:42 PM
You mentioned the teeth pulling with rats. My boyfriend insists that you have to do this with feeding live and that I should start feeding my IJ live because it's healthier. Sometimes I think he's a bit off with his snake knowledge...is he right or no?
Do not listen to him. He's an idiot.
Aaron_S
10-04-13, 05:43 PM
Rodents have instincts. They know what to fear and what not to. I've owned, watched and studied various rodents since I was a small child. I noticed a change in mine when I brought the snake into their room. They eventually got used to the new addition since they realized it was not going to harm them. They reacted the same when I first got indoor cats.
You the difference between your experience and my experience? The dozens upon dozens of snakes I've fed live prey items to.
ErikBush97
10-04-13, 05:45 PM
It's okay to feed live. What isn't okay is to be cruel and hold prey items like that. It's a slight step down from the people who have said pull the teeth or claws out prior to feeding the rat off.
Feeding live isn't trouble. Very rarely does a snake actually get harmed. It's usually only harmed if they are left in for a prolonged period of time.
One of my Boas has scabs and scars all over her face from her previous owner feeding live. Just for example. Feeding live is fine if it's done responsibly, but she's failing to do so.
Aaron_S
10-04-13, 05:49 PM
One of my Boas has scabs and scars all over her face from her previous owner feeding live. Just for example. Feeding live is fine if it's done responsibly, but she's failing to do so.
Did you read the last sentence I wrote?
I have not seen this video you speak of so I can't comment on that particular instance.
Awaiting Abyss
10-04-13, 05:54 PM
You the difference between your experience and my experience? The dozens upon dozens of snakes I've fed live prey items to.
I'm not fully understanding what you wrote, but why the rude tone?
Aaron_S
10-04-13, 06:00 PM
I'm not fully understanding what you wrote, but why the rude tone?
You don't understand what I wrote?
I said I've experienced a LOT of prey items not looking at snakes as predators and disregarding them as such until it's too late. It goes against everything you said about them feeling trapped and fighting.
In fact, I have never seen one actually fight.
For the record, my preference is f/t and I strive to ensure all my snakes eat that but one every once in awhile is a chump and won't eat f/t. Also, all my babies start on live.
ErikBush97
10-10-13, 04:24 AM
You don't understand what I wrote?
I said I've experienced a LOT of prey items not looking at snakes as predators and disregarding them as such until it's too late. It goes against everything you said about them feeling trapped and fighting.
In fact, I have never seen one actually fight.
For the record, my preference is f/t and I strive to ensure all my snakes eat that but one every once in awhile is a chump and won't eat f/t. Also, all my babies start on live.
Almost every time I have seen a snake being fed live, in person and in videos, the prey always hyperventilates and I've actually seen quite a few jump above, behind, and a few times AT the snake. I have only seen a few prey items that didn't seem aware of the snake being a predator. I do understand that some snakes refuse F/T but before her video of her snake eating said live meal, she had fed him about six F/T meals. She did this for.fun or something, I guess?
Pareeeee
10-10-13, 07:09 AM
@Aaron
My Rosy Boa only eats live. He ate f/t once, but completely refuses to do so again.
Every time I bring a feeder mouse home and put it in the feeding bin with the snake, it definitely knows instinctively that the snake is a predator. Even before the snake strikes, the mouse goes up to it, sniffs it, then immediately runs into the corner rattling its tail (not sure what that means). The mouse then usually sits there frozen and terrified. If the snake moves, the mouse flips right the heck out.
I have rarely seen a mouse fight back, however. Only when Boaz has attacked and started constricting does the mouse try to bite, but by then it's usually too weak to do so.
shaunyboy
10-10-13, 07:47 AM
You mentioned the teeth pulling with rats. My boyfriend insists that you have to do this with feeding live and that I should start feeding my IJ live because it's healthier. Sometimes I think he's a bit off with his snake knowledge...is he right or no?
your boyfriend talking out his arse.....
stick to feeding your Irian frozen thawed mate
cheers shaun
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