Pinworms!

[lisas]

I just had my beardie tested for worms because she ate 2 wild bugs when I took her outdoors this summer. She ate a bee and a dragonfly. I was right near her, but she was quick. I'll have to be really, really careful around the fireflys next summer. Anyways, she has pinworms (not too many). I guess this means I'll have to clean out her tank after treatment and start a new bioactive substrate. Should I have my corn snake tested too I wonder? :no:

[formica]

your corn wont pick them up, the only way he'll get them is by eating sumthing containing either the eggs or worms (frozen mice dont contain live eggs or worms) - the difference with the beardie is that her live food could potentially eat something containing eggs in the enclosure, which would then be passed onto ur beardie

[lisas]

Thanks, I didn't really want to get the corn snake tested too (though I would have). My beardie had to have gotten the pinworms from the wild bugs she sneaked because I don't even feed her in the enclosure. She came to me with MBD so can't catch crickets very well - I take her out and help to keep the crickets near her (its annoying). I'm surprised she caught the wild bugs, but they flew right by her and the timing was right. Thanks for your help; you saved me $20. Seeing as though I need to get the beardie examined now, pay for meds. that means a lot. Just had to pick up prednisone (over $30) for my ferret yesterday as well, and the dog needs food.

[Starbuck]

Depending on where you are aourcing your crickets, they absolutely could have had a parsite burden (yes, even bulk bought crix). Crickets are a really common host for a lot of different types of parasites and pathogens.
I can't comment on the effect on your beardie... what made you test your dragon? Was there diarrhea etc?

[lisas]

Wow, I never knew store-bought bulk crickets could contain parasites. My beardie had no symptoms whatsoever. She looks nice &round, eats a good varied diet. The reason I tested (besides the wild bugs she ate) is due to the fact that I had a WC blue-tongue skink and was uninformed about parasite testing. Due to husbandry errors, he got a r.i. and despite treatment, never recovered and died. A breeder said that he could have a parasite load that complicated recovery - his temps. were low some of the time this past winter. I just don't want to (mentally can't) lose another animal, so I asked the vet about parasite testing on the beardie. He said that they commonly carry a parasite load and all should get tested. They come in often once they stop eating altogether and he commonly finds that parasites are the reason.

[infernalis]

what basking temps do you use??

[lisas]

100 basking spot, 73 or so on cool side - that's for the bearded dragon. Night temps. will go down to 65-70. Humidity: 30-40 day, night goes up a bit (50 or so)
For my corn, 80-85 basking spot, low 70's cool side. I try to keep humidity 50-60.
For the blue tongue skink, the basking was normally 90-95, but when it got cold last winter, I forgot to change the strength of the basking light like an idiot. I don't remember what the temps. were but it was a ridiculous, epic fail on my part. I was a fool who didn't realize the imperative nature of maintaining exact temps. and checking on them regularly. I lost my animal and find self-forgiveness elusive. I will do right by my others as it is all that I can do.

[Starbuck]

for the beardie, since you were not noticing any symptoms, i would NOT change your dietary routine, or treat for worms. Continue to offer gut loaded crickets and leafy greens etc, and dont worry about parasites/potential parasites.
YES many captive reptiles will have some protozoan/bacterial/parasitic burden, but it RARELY causes problems- only in stressed animals. I highly doubt that the majority of sick herps going to your vet can attribute their illness to parasites. It is more likely a husbandry issue, and the finding of parasite burdens in just incidental.

[lisas]

Now I'm torn because the beardie has an appointment at the vet this coming Saturday. I think he'll want to treat for the pinworms and now I'm worried. Could there be any negative outcome of ridding her of the worms with medication? Also, should I redo her bio-active substrate because of this? (I'd love to not have to)

[Starbuck]

ask your vet about the negatives of not treating, and the liklihood of reinfection. I have not tken vertebrate parasitology yet in my curriculum, so i am only speaking from the entomology (bug) side of things.
I dont think treating will cause any problems necessarily (you may notice diarrhea for a few days after treatment, or more basking than usual), but it may nto HELP any either, if the beardie is going to be continually exposed from her food (store bought crix- not 100% but YES they can be carrying parasites).

my thoughts are this: if the worms arent causing a problem (now), and werent causing a problem before, why stress the animals system trying to get rid of them (if they will potentially be back again). Bottom line i would defer to the vet if he can support his claims that YES you should treat. if he cant give you a good reason why, then i would think long and hard about it.

Cant help you with the bioactive substrate, as i just use cypress :p

[lisas]

Thanks, I think I answered my own question about the substrate - she's not ingesting any whatsoever (I don't feed her in there) so I think it will be fine. I will call the vet before bringing her in, as she just couldn't be doing better. She really is thriving at this time, and as I've found out, they do have delicate systems. I don't want any stress on her and have had her for 4 1/2 years. She's 6 now and has only done better and better despite some husbandry errors over the years. Now that I am much more informed, she has never looked more healthy and I don't want to jeopardize that so I'll weigh the options of treating vs. not treating with the vet. Thanks for your important info.

[infernalis]

Why so low basking?? Before you tell me it's recommended, I'd like to know where in the red heart/northern territory that the ground/rocks only reach 100 degrees??

Jack up that heat.

My goodness, the AIR temperatures there exceed 100.

Out on the wastes of the Never Never -
That's where the dead men lie!
There where the heat-waves dance forever -
That's where the dead men lie!
That's where the Earth's loved sons are keeping
Endless tryst: not the west wind sweeping
Feverish pinions can wake their sleeping -
Out where the dead men lie!

Where brown Summer and Death have mated -
That's where the dead men lie!
Loving with fiery lust unsated -
That's where the dead men lie!
Out where the grinning skulls bleach whitely
Under the saltbush sparkling brightly;
Out where the wild dogs chorus nightly -
That's where the dead men lie!


Excerpt of "where the dead men lie" by Barcroft Boake, in reference to the red heart of Oz.

Parasites like pin worms do not fare well at all in those conditions at all, and your beardie will love you for it.

I live in new york state, it was overcast and I temp gun measured the sidewalk to my house, it was 104..today, on october 3, autumn.

[lisas]

I looked up some photos of the northern territory today. They left out the dead men and bleached skulls (probably photo-shopped them out), but I can tell that I wouldn't need a fire to fry an egg there. That poem reminded me where my girl came from, and why she needs to be so tough and spikey on the outside. Anyways, I jacked the temp. up to 111 today; she was under the basking light but was mouth-gaping. What I wonder is, why didn't she just move? Does this temp. sound more like it? It had been up over 100, up to 110 until just recently anyhow - I had known I'd probably need another heat source soon with the weather changing. I did think 100 was OK though, so thanks for opening my eyes on this. I plan to talk to the vet about everything posted here about the pin-worms, then deciding with him weather or not to treat. I'm inclined not to after all the good info. THANK YOU for taking the time to help with this, infernalis and Starbuck!