Some croc advice needed please

[o-lara-o]

Hey guys,
I have recently bought a saltwater crocodile juvenile approximately 18 months old and am struggling to get him to eat anything at all. Was just wondering if anyone has any tips for me. Croc keepers here in Australia are pretty few and far between and no one has any advice for me. Even the farm I bought him from isn't of any help to me either which is disappointing.

So far I have tried mice, chopped up whole baby chicken, shrimp, crayfish and chicken necks (Which is what the farm told me he was eating). I've offered to him on tongs as well as leaving food out for him overnight.

We've tried to reduce stress as much as possible. He is in an above ground heated pond with a large land area with basking light. We have only handled him a couple of times to clean out his pond and are trying to minimalise any visual or physical contact with him until he starts eating for us. He had a powerhead pump in the pond to assist the canister filter however we felt that the vibrations it caused may have been causing him added stress and have had that pump turned off for just under a week now.

Does anyone have any tips they could share from experience?
Thanks in advance

[infernalis]

We have a member here who could probably help.

sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum - View Profile: crocdoc (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/members/crocdoc.html)

[crocdoc]

My two immediate questions would be:

1. How long have you had the croc for?

and

2. Can you show any photographs of the setup, please.

[o-lara-o]

We have had the croc for 13 days now

[o-lara-o]

A bit of other info as well:
Temp checks: Land area has gradient of heat between 26 to 34 degrees celcius (78.8 - 93.2 fahrenheit) with a basking site of 38 - 40 degrees celcius (100 - 104 far). Basking lights on from 7am until 10pm
Water temperature varies depending on time of day between 28 to 30 celcius (82.4 to 86 far)
Two water analysis:
14/9/13 (before introducing croc)
pH: 7.2
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm
Nitrite: 00ppm

21/9/13 (5 days of being in enclosure)
pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 8.0 (after taking out chicken necks that have been in pond overnight - total water change after this)
Nitrite: 0.25ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm

I questioned whether he was brumated during winter however he defecated on second day after introduction which indicated that he had eaten recently.

[crocdoc]

For starters, I think the enclosure is too bare and open - the croc's only choice of cover is to hide under water, but there's nothing for it to hide under there.

Two weeks isn't a long time for a croc to refuse food after a move, especially if it's 18 months old, but I think the wide open enclosure and brightness wouldn't help its stress levels much. Small crocs are pretty shy - at that size they're tricky to find in the wild because they're hiding.

I presume you've tried feeding it at night, when the light is out?

[o-lara-o]

That does make sense regarding the open-ness of the enclosure. He may not be able to raise his body temp above 30 (the water temp) while he hides in the water will he.

We have offered him food mostly at night, however just "to try it" we have also offered morning and mid day as well.

[o-lara-o]

I just whipped up a bit of a hide for him with some off cuts of wood. It won't be permanent but will at least give him something to hide under for the immediate term. He should be able to fit his whole body under there. The opening to the hide is right at the waters edge, with the other opening on the side of the land area. Hopefully this will allow him to come out of the water feeling a bit more covered.

[o-lara-o]

Just a follow up... the croc had his first decent meal last night and has a full tummy today. It's all uphill from here. Thanks all for the advice

[Aaron_S]

I'd only recommend to get rid of that carpet. It's quite unsanitary as substrates go.

All the best with the saltie.

[Hotchkiss]

Can we get some pics of the actual croc?

[o-lara-o]

Thanks Aaron. Here's some pics Hotchkiss. First pic was the day we got him. Second pic was today

[Mikoh4792]

What sized enclosure are you going to house him in when he becomes adult size? I've always wondered how much space you need for crocs.

[Aaron_S]

What sized enclosure are you going to house him in when he becomes adult size? I've always wondered how much space you need for crocs.

It's a saltie. However much room HE/SHE wants lol.

[Hotchkiss]

Thanks Aaron. Here's some pics Hotchkiss. First pic was the day we got him. Second pic was today


Awesome looking animal, sure you got the room?

[BH Varanus]

Hey guys,
I have recently bought a saltwater crocodile juvenile approximately 18 months old and am struggling to get him to eat anything at all. Was just wondering if anyone has any tips for me. Croc keepers here in Australia are pretty few and far between and no one has any advice for me. Even the farm I bought him from isn't of any help to me either which is disappointing.

So far I have tried mice, chopped up whole baby chicken, shrimp, crayfish and chicken necks (Which is what the farm told me he was eating). I've offered to him on tongs as well as leaving food out for him overnight.

We've tried to reduce stress as much as possible. He is in an above ground heated pond with a large land area with basking light. We have only handled him a couple of times to clean out his pond and are trying to minimalise any visual or physical contact with him until he starts eating for us. He had a powerhead pump in the pond to assist the canister filter however we felt that the vibrations it caused may have been causing him added stress and have had that pump turned off for just under a week now.

Does anyone have any tips they could share from experience?
Thanks in advance
i pretty much agree with every single directive post...

Don't take this the wrong way but my first concern when asking about someones animal care strategy in general is truly meant to trigger a more proactive thought process in owners (if one doesn't already exist). So with that, please take my words as advice ( if you need it) and genuine concern for all animals under captive care and not an attack. However, the fact that you used artificial turf and minimum hides starting off is why I'm asking. We are all still learning and we all make errors no matter what Degree's, Doctorates, and Hardcore experience we have. the field of herp care like playing chess.

Questions:

1. once you master the temps for this baby monster and the little guy/gal starts feeding. What are your long term housing plans for a NILE CROC!? Statistically exotics of this caliber don't survive past 36 months, are usually re-homed after 12 months because of food bills, or given away after 24 months because housing conditions can't be met.

2. How many reps in this species category or that reach over six feet have you kept ( I assume you have some experience because acquiring such animals these days isn't as easy as it once was, or you may just know a guy that knows a guy)

3. what are the safety and legal guidelines for your area; basically IF it were to possibly escape in the future how would you track it down. I don't agree with tagging, but I prefer it over micro-chipping because of the migration of the chip over time).

Not trying to be bothersome in my questions just kinda was wondering; i use to grab crazy exotics but I deal in re-homing and adoption these days. So I can't help but inquire. My rule of thumb is once you acquire an animal that can grow large enough to snack on you the blue prints for the next enclosure should be drawn up..lol...

Respectfully,
BH

[o-lara-o]

Thanks for the interest guys and I know that you are only looking for the animals best interests but I'm a little unsure on what to reply. On one hand I want to answer your questions and accept your criticism of my enclosure and on the other hand I want to express that I shouldn't have to justify my experience and decisions.
I am a wildlife educator - I teach members of the public about awareness and conservation of wildlife, specifically reptiles. I have more than 10 years of experience keeping, breeding captive reptiles including geckos, skinks, dragons, monitors, small and large pythons, turtles and frogs. I have also documented and photographed reptiles in every habitat in Australia from deserts, rock outcrops to dense rainforest.
I also rescue and rehabilitate unwanted, sick and injured reptiles for rehoming...

The crocodile that I have is a new animal that I have acquired as the crocodilian representative to my reptile shows. He must be of a size that is easily handled so that adults and children are able to view him up close, touch it and learn from him. When he grows to a certain size, he is no longer of appropriate size and I return him to the crocodile park and I will get a new one.
The queston: Would I have bought the crocodile if I couldn't return it when it grows? My answer is no.

As far as astroturf goes, it is an enclosure base that I have successfully using for a lot of reptiles and in relation to the hygiene aspect - has anyone heard of disinfectant? I may be new to keeping crocodiles but I am applying what knowledge and experience I have to give the best care to this animal as I can. If I find the astroturf to be unsuitable, I will change it simple as that.

As far as health and safety for the croc, and the possibility of escape: My business has what we call 'Standard Operating Procedures' in place. This details the plan of action and the preventative measures that are in place to avoid such incidents.

Now to answer another question - why did I not put hiding in the enclosure? In all honesty, because I didn't know the importance of it in young crocs. Which probably sounds silly and inexperienced to you reading this doesn't it? Well I have been under guidance from a few other croc keepers who do the exact same thing as I do, and keep their crocs with no hides whatsoever with no stress problems. And believe it or not, they couldn't give me an answer as to why he wasn't eating either.
So my lesson is: Crocs need the security of a hide as much as any other reptile.

Ok, now that I have justified my actions to some people halfway across the world that I don't know and have never met I wonder why I bothered and am tempted to ask them to justify why I should have to answer to them...

I am very grateful to CrocDoc however, who gave me the little tip that I needed no matter how simple it was. That was all I was asking for and not the interrogation.

[BH Varanus]

It's not about justification its just concern ; please don't take it as a challenge but as you know that's what comes with posting on any forum..you'll get what you need and some extra. Without a doubt there will be a time when i get questioned on this forum as well and that's what comes with the territory.. honestly, thus far this forum seems more mature than most and that's why I engaged with the question. I don't know everything nor do i claim to. They were valid questions anyone that has dealt with red level herps might ask.

So trust me when I say my questions are basic and general and not intended to demand justification. A salt water croc as you know is not a toy and honestly is arguably one of the more challenging exotics. it is what it is, but after reading your response I'm glad you were receptive to crocdoc and that you responded to my questions it speak volumes about the good intentions and abilities as a owner that you have. hopefully you keep us all updated on its growthin the future

Regards,
BH

[noidster]

Failure imminent

[MDT]

Failure imminent

Least helpful post in this thread.

[o-lara-o]

It's not about justification its just concern ; please don't take it as a challenge but as you know that's what comes with posting on any forum..you'll get what you need and some extra. Without a doubt there will be a time when i get questioned on this forum as well and that's what comes with the territory.. honestly, thus far this forum seems more mature than most and that's why I engaged with the question. I don't know everything nor do i claim to. They were valid questions anyone that has dealt with red level herps might ask.

So trust me when I say my questions are basic and general and not intended to demand justification. A salt water croc as you know is not a toy and honestly is arguably one of the more challenging exotics. it is what it is, but after reading your response I'm glad you were receptive to crocdoc and that you responded to my questions it speak volumes about the good intentions and abilities as a owner that you have. hopefully you keep us all updated on its growthin the future

Regards,
BH

Thanks, I know it is to be expected from a forum. I had a few years break from forums and this is the exact reason why (we've all been there). Forgive me for taking it as a direct jab. At the end of the day I have a new baby who's just settling in and as with all reptiles we needed to find the reason why and fix it. Croc is eating well now, lessons were learnt and no harm done.
I'll certainly keep you updated on his progress.