my snake's peculiar eating habit.

[Deft-Tech]

As you all know i got my first snake, A Brazilian Rainbow Boa a couple weeks ago and i'm pretty sure this isn't normal.

The past few times I've gone to feed him he won't let go of my hand, he holds on tight whenever i try to place him in his feeding tank and won't let go, and when i am able to get him to release he doesn't eat

So the past two occurances of feeding time he won't eat unless he's holding on to me, i have to give him my hand to hold on to in order for him to eat, i find this very cute and somewhat of a bonding thing. Has anyone else heard of this or had this happen to them? i'm not complaining...I just think i have an amazing snake on my hands(pun is intended) :)

[marvelfreak]

He feel safe wrap around your warm hand but one of these time it will be your hand he bites. I would just feed him in is regular cage. Never got why people feed in different cages?

[KORBIN5895]

Feeding in a separate tank probably is stressing him out. As for the griping your hand that is another sign it doesn't like the feeding tank. And finally snakes are incapable of bonding with anything ..... at least in the sense you mean.

[Starbuck]

he is probably squeezing onto you in part due to the sensation of being lowered into the feeding tank (falling) and then you trying to get him off of his perceived safe perch. It may be cute now but it will not be so fun when he is an adult/when he has bitten you in a feeding response and you cant get him off.

as mentioned, feeding him in his enclosure will be fine.

[Mikoh4792]

I agree with what Starbuck said. Have you ever tried taking a snake off of a branch? It only coils harder because it feels like it might fall. It has nothing to do with bonding with the branch it's wrapped around.

[Terranaut]

I would love to know who ever came up with the feeding tub idea?
Yet another solid reason why this is a ludicrous thing to do. Can you imagine trying to put a 15' burm in a feeding tub with the scent of prey in the house...feeding tubs are just asking for trouble.

[sharthun]

i would love to know who ever came up with the feeding tub idea?
Yet another solid reason why this is a ludicrous thing to do. Can you imagine trying to put a 15' burm in a feeding tub with the scent of prey in the house...feeding tubs are just asking for trouble.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ +1

[Doug 351]

He feel safe wrap around your warm hand but one of these time it will be your hand he bites. I would just feed him in is regular cage. Never got why people feed in different cages?

This is just my opinion but I think feeding in a cage different from the ordinary housing trains the snake to disassociate the feeding response from the normal chill state.....or maybe more correctly -ASSOCIATE the feeding ritual with the feeding cage. I have always done this and it not only reduces the chances of the snake misinterpreting any clues or sensations as relating to feeding, but also seems to make the feeding ritual much more reliable and quicker to accomplish.

Again- JMHO- but it has always worked very well for me- the only time I feed in the normal viv is when I'm lazy.

[Terranaut]

Well I thaw my rats inside my house down in the basement sink in a bucket of water. My snakes are in my garage snake room. After the rats soften up a bit even that far away my snakes go in to feed mode. I could not possibly try to handle most of them. My gopher rattles her tail from the scent even that far away. 7 of 10 will bite at anything that moves once they have the scent. Absolutely no way would I attempt moving them in this state. I have to ask.... what about post feeding? My king needs a solid day to shake his feed response. Taking him from a feed tub to his viv would result in a bite for sure.

[Aaron_S]

This is just my opinion but I think feeding in a cage different from the ordinary housing trains the snake to disassociate the feeding response from the normal chill state.....or maybe more correctly -ASSOCIATE the feeding ritual with the feeding cage. I have always done this and it not only reduces the chances of the snake misinterpreting any clues or sensations as relating to feeding, but also seems to make the feeding ritual much more reliable and quicker to accomplish.

Again- JMHO- but it has always worked very well for me- the only time I feed in the normal viv is when I'm lazy.

Nope. Wrong.

[EL Ziggy]

I used to feed my Cal King and MBK in separate feeding bins but it got too complicated. Especially when it came time to put them back in their vivs. They get pretty riled up expecting more food. I knew it would only get worse as they got bigger so I just started feeding them in their enclosures. I'm a little concerned they might get more cage aggressive but I figure a little hook training should take care of that.

[KORBIN5895]

I have fed my collection solely in their enclosure (except for breeding pairs) for about two years now. The only time I ever notice any form of aggression or heightened feeding response is when I have rats thawing. This does not included my female woma and a male dh snow bci that is totally unpredictable and for sale.

[sharthun]

I used to feed my Cal King and MBK in separate feeding bins but it got too complicated. Especially when it came time to put them back in their vivs. They get pretty riled up expecting more food. I knew it would only get worse as they got bigger so I just started feeding them in their enclosures. I'm a little concerned they might get more cage aggressive but I figure a little hook training should take care of that.


Yeah a little hook training is amazing! Great decision! :):D

[Snakesitter]

I see we have a lot of reptile romantics on here. ;-)

Joking aside, I agree with feeding animals in their regular viv (except for, as one person noted, breeding pairs). It saves time and reduces risk. I used to move my first snake long ago -- because I was "told" it was best -- but there is no good reason to do so.

[Deft-Tech]

thanks for the advice, i know my snake liking/bonding with me is completely wrong, i just like to imagine different.

[BryanB]

I kinda use a backwards method i tap my snake with my 2 foot plastic tongs then bring in the rat using the tongs. when it is holding time i go in with my hands let them get a good smell "always washing hands first" and pick them up. other than my CRB who refuses to comply because he is still really defensive and still hides almost all the time it works well.

[KORBIN5895]

I use a completely different method myself. I just reach in and grab my snakes. Then when its feeding time I just open the door and toss them in. The only snake that bites me as a feeding response is my female woma (bites and won't let go) and my dh snow just bites me because he is bipolar (strikes then acts like he didn't).

[desipooh.12]

I see we have a lot of reptile romantics on here. ;-)

Joking aside, I agree with feeding animals in their regular viv (except for, as one person noted, breeding pairs). It saves time and reduces risk. I used to move my first snake long ago -- because I was "told" it was best -- but there is no good reason to do so.

why is it not good?
With my brb I put her in a separate tub & she feeds fine..
Ive heard of swallowing substrate when there taking the mouse down & causing problems while feeding in there own enclosure..
Would it be the best thing since they're young &
Obviously when there to big you can't put them in a feeding tank/tub..
then you'd be able to feed inside enclosure..
Makes more sense to me.. or am I missing something?
Enlighten me :)

[KORBIN5895]

why is it not good?
With my brb I put her in a separate tub & she feeds fine..
Ive heard of swallowing substrate when there taking the mouse down & causing problems while feeding in there own enclosure..
Would it be the best thing since they're young &
Obviously when there to big you can't put them in a feeding tank/tub..
then you'd be able to feed inside enclosure..
Makes more sense to me.. or am I missing something?
Enlighten me :)

Handling a snake is stressful. Stress before a feeding can cause it to refuse. Stress after a feeding can cause it to puke.

Feeding it outside an enclosure can condition it to think picked up equals food. This can get you bit. Accidentally handling prey then removing the snake from the cage can get you bit. Putting a snake away that is in feeding mode can get you bit.

Swallowing substrate would only be a problem if your husbandry is crappy.

Snakes can get into a routine and what happens when your snake is grown but won't eat unless it is in a separate enclosure?

What part of a separate feeding tub makes sense?

[desipooh.12]

Handling a snake is stressful. Stress before a feeding can cause it to refuse. Stress after a feeding can cause it to puke.

Feeding it outside an enclosure can condition it to think picked up equals food. This can get you bit. Accidentally handling prey then removing the snake from the cage can get you bit. Putting a snake away that is in feeding mode can get you bit.

Swallowing substrate would only be a problem if your husbandry is crappy.

Snakes can get into a routine and what happens when your snake is grown but won't eat unless it is in a separate enclosure?

What part of a separate feeding tub makes sense?
well it hasn't happened to me at all..
everything that your saying has not happened..
it might or might NOT..
and its called washing your hands continuously, which I don't mind because I do it everyday all day especially at work..
cypress mulch looks like shredded wood chips,
and the coconut shavings looks worse,
so I don't think crappy substrate would be it..
now if you use paper towels then sure feed em in its enclosure..
but the same goes for feeding them Inside their enclosure, if you constantly feed them in it everytime you open their enclosure they're going to think it meal time & either strike depending what you feed em.. Because of "conditioning"..
so either or it ALL has its PROS & CONS

[Mikoh4792]

cypress mulch looks like shredded wood chips,
and the coconut shavings looks worse,
so I don't think crappy substrate would be it..

He never said crappy substrate. he said crappy husbandry.


If the conditions of the cage are right ( clean, correct thermal gradient and humidity) the snake should be able to pass it. After all how do you think snakes digest bones and fur/feather?

[Terranaut]

Well when your snakes are big and react to scent alone things can happen. I hope it never does and arguing this point in the end is a stalemate anyway. Substrate swallowing happens all the time in the wild with twigs leaves and dirt. They can digest bone so I doubt a little aspen will be a big deal. I have seen my snakes eat aspen, cocco husk, cypress and eco earth. Big snakes ....little snakes...all are healthy and well and pass substrate without issues. I would never trade ny safety based on a few freak instances.

[KORBIN5895]

well it hasn't happened to me at all..
everything that your saying has not happened..
it might or might NOT..
and its called washing your hands continuously, which I don't mind because I do it everyday all day especially at work..
cypress mulch looks like shredded wood chips,
and the coconut shavings looks worse,
so I don't think crappy substrate would be it..
now if you use paper towels then sure feed em in its enclosure..
but the same goes for feeding them Inside their enclosure, if you constantly feed them in it everytime you open their enclosure they're going to think it meal time & either strike depending what you feed em.. Because of "conditioning"..
so either or it ALL has its PROS & CONS

Well thank you so much for your words of wisdom and experience! How long have you kept snakes again? 6 months? 1 year?

I am really not sure what your option of substrate aesthetics has to do with impaction but I'm am sure that in your vast knowledge and experience you some how find relevance between the two.

I do not constantly feed my snakes every time I open the cage. I have never been bit when food was present. Do you know why? Because my hands are never near them. I have been bit twice while reaching into the cage. The male that bit me is fed in a separate enclosure because he is in with a female.

[MH4C]

I know that here in the Netherlands the swallowing substrate = death thing was universally accepted when I started keeping snakes about 7 years ago. Whenever a feeding picture was posted on a Dutch forum and some substrate was on the mouse/rat, people would freak out and comments would go as far as 'you just killed your snake'.
Of course over time keepers experienced that swallowing substrate doesn't kill your snake unless it has been kept way too dry or is sick in some way (gastrointestinal obstruction, substrate isn't digested properly and adds to obstruction). So indeed nowadays only people that 'have done it this way since forever', or new keepers that follow advice from peers with only old knowledge still feed in feeding tubs.

In my opinion there are no reasons to feed in feeding tubs. Sick snakes should be kept on newspaper/paper towels, and if you house snakes together you should always watch watched during and for some time after feeding, negating the need for a feeding tub.

Regarding the eating habits of your BRB I can only affirm the statements previously made, they are secretive snakes, so getting handled right before feeding is probably very counterproductive to their feeding responses.

[Aaron_S]

well it hasn't happened to me at all..
everything that your saying has not happened..
it might or might NOT..
and its called washing your hands continuously, which I don't mind because I do it everyday all day especially at work..
cypress mulch looks like shredded wood chips,
and the coconut shavings looks worse,
so I don't think crappy substrate would be it..
now if you use paper towels then sure feed em in its enclosure..
but the same goes for feeding them Inside their enclosure, if you constantly feed them in it everytime you open their enclosure they're going to think it meal time & either strike depending what you feed em.. Because of "conditioning"..
so either or it ALL has its PROS & CONS

No pros and cons. You're just wrong.

[Mikoh4792]

No pros and cons. You're just wrong.

lol!


The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[KORBIN5895]

No pros and cons. You're just wrong.

No,no,no Aaron. Let him wow us with all of his years of experience and his accumulated wisdom.

[Mr Lynch]

I think as a general rule, people tend to agree after a snake eats, to not mess with him for a few days while it begins the digestion process whether its for what I just mentioned, or because of the chance of it spitting its food item back up. I would find it hard to believe if feeding in a separate enclosure, that putting it back in its main enclosure after it ate "handeling it in any way", would be seen as following this rule of thumb, not to mention, it may still have a feeding response going on as mentioned above.

[BryanB]

No pros and cons. You're just wrong.

just so you know i just love to read most of your responses to just about anything

[Mark Taylor]

I feed all my snakes in there own enclosure.

Before feeding I don't touch the snake, I dangle the rat and the snake smells it then strikes and coils then I shut the viv door. Simples :3eyes:

When I want to handle (Rare occasions) I open the viv door and pick it up, I don't wait for the snake to smell me and decide whether I am food :wacky:(Never been bit using this method). There is no good valid reason to feed in separate tubs unless your breading.:)

[Snakesitter]

Respectfully, I think we're skirting the line now between "advising" and "lynching." While Desipooh may not have as much background on this issue as some other keepers here, I'd really, really prefer to avoid a repeat of past threads spiraling out of control. I know it drove away members -- and silenced valid questions by new keepers -- before.

[KORBIN5895]

Respectfully, I think we're skirting the line now between "advising" and "lynching." While Desipooh may not have as much background on this issue as some other keepers here, I'd really, really prefer to avoid a repeat of past threads spiraling out of control. I know it drove away members -- and silenced valid questions by new keepers -- before.

Well when someone's question are answered with knowledge and facts then they claim to know better because of their very limited personal experience then I have no pity for them. We really don't need ignorance here.

[desipooh.12]

Well thank you so much for your words of wisdom and experience! How long have you kept snakes again? 6 months? 1 year?

I am really not sure what your option of substrate aesthetics has to do with impaction but I'm am sure that in your vast knowledge and experience you some how find relevance between the two.

I do not constantly feed my snakes every time I open the cage. I have never been bit when food was present. Do you know why? Because my hands are never near them. I have been bit twice while reaching into the cage. The male that bit me is fed in a separate enclosure because he is in with a female.
really your going to go off of how long I've had a snake? All YOU do is argue with people & over analyze everything.. I just asked how was it wrong &' I wasn't even talking to you AT ALL I mean come on all MOST of you people do all day is ATTACK people over the net because of ONE SIMPLE question, especially if YOU aren't apart of the little group you guys have here..
blah I'm to tires to keep going on & on about some of you & idgas if you guys go on & on about this I personally dont care because this is
cyber bullshit.. I came for POSITIVE advice not to be bitched for everything when I ask ONE SIMPLE QUESTION.. Good night

[desipooh.12]

Respectfully, I think we're skirting the line now between "advising" and "lynching." While Desipooh may not have as much background on this issue as some other keepers here, I'd really, really prefer to avoid a repeat of past threads spiraling out of control. I know it drove away members -- and silenced valid questions by new keepers -- before.
I personally was asking you because obviously you breed BRBs, I just wanted to know why it wasn't, its not your fault & I'm sorry if it sounded rude or anything nothing personal against you.. I was just asking a question :hmm:

[Deft-Tech]

Korbin why are you so mean? we're just talking here about snakes, you flew off the handle here and bashed someone for expressing their own opinion. get a hold of yourself man

[KORBIN5895]

Korbin why are you so mean? we're just talking here about snakes, you flew off the handle here and bashed someone for expressing their own opinion. get a hold of yourself man

BwahaShahahahEahahahahahXahahaha! You're really funny. I haven't gone of the handle yet..... I actually never do. Regardless I will call anyone out that passes off BAD info and ignorance.

[lady_bug87]

Kevin this may surprise you but you aren't the gatekeeper here. You don't get to pass judgment on who should be here and who shouldn't.

You aren't impervious to being shown the door as we saw with your little time out. Maybe it will do for you to remember that.

[Deft-Tech]

regardless korbin, this is a forum for people who love snakes, to share their information with eachother , if you disagree with their information you should talk about it like a man, not a little child throwing a temper tantrum and start insulting or berating them.

I'm sure you have some very good knowledge from your experience raising snakes that we all could benefit from. But you should be a bit more humble about it and less aggressive.

[KORBIN5895]

Handling a snake is stressful. Stress before a feeding can cause it to refuse. Stress after a feeding can cause it to puke.

Feeding it outside an enclosure can condition it to think picked up equals food. This can get you bit. Accidentally handling prey then removing the snake from the cage can get you bit. Putting a snake away that is in feeding mode can get you bit.

Swallowing substrate would only be a problem if your husbandry is crappy.

Snakes can get into a routine and what happens when your snake is grown but won't eat unless it is in a separate enclosure?

What part of a separate feeding tub makes sense?

Well thank you so much for your words of wisdom and experience! How long have you kept snakes again? 6 months? 1 year?

I am really not sure what your option of substrate aesthetics has to do with impaction but I'm am sure that in your vast knowledge and experience you some how find relevance between the two.

I do not constantly feed my snakes every time I open the cage. I have never been bit when food was present. Do you know why? Because my hands are never near them. I have been bit twice while reaching into the cage. The male that bit me is fed in a separate enclosure because he is in with a female.

Here are my two response you seem to be all worked up about.

Kevin this may surprise you but you aren't the gatekeeper here. You don't get to pass judgment on who should be here and who shouldn't.

You aren't impervious to being shown the door as we saw with your little time out. Maybe it will do for you to remember that.

Please show where I said he could stay or go. Now please show me what rule I broke.

I'm disappointed in you. My original statement was all fact. It wasn't speculation and it wasn't even my opinion. He then disregards fact and truth based on one snake he has had less than as year.

Regardless of how blatantly wrong he is I can pass judgment. What I can't do is sentence people.


regardless korbin, this is a forum for people who love snakes, to share their information with eachother , if you disagree with their information you should talk about it like a man, not a little child throwing a temper tantrum and start insulting or berating them.

I'm sure you have some very good knowledge from your experience raising snakes that we all could benefit from. But you should be a bit more humble about it and less aggressive.

I mocked him. Get over it. He plainly showed he wasn't looking to be enlightened. He wants to be right and he won't let facts stand in his way. I wrote a really nice post about it if you want to go look at it.

[lady_bug87]

YOU'RE disappointed? That's rich.

You do pass judgement. Constantly. And when people don't give in and leave because of your berating you follow them around like a bully.

The way you come off is that you speak for all of us when you say we don't need this person or that person or these people on this forum. You take pride in chasing people off to suit your own need for vindication that doesn't belong to you.

What gives you the right to pass judgment? Last I checked you were just a regular member and from one regular to another I can honestly say your sabbatical was obviously not long enough.

which rule did you break? I'm sure there is one there about harassment and believe it or not 'mocking' IS harassment.

don't even try to pull me into a moronic pissing contest with you. It won't work.

[KORBIN5895]

YOU'RE disappointed? That's rich.

You do pass judgement. Constantly. And when people don't give in and leave because of your berating you follow them around like a bully.

The way you come off is that you speak for all of us when you say we don't need this person or that person or these people on this forum. You take pride in chasing people off to suit your own need for vindication that doesn't belong to you.

What gives you the right to pass judgment? Last I checked you were just a regular member and from one regular to another I can honestly say your sabbatical was obviously not long enough.

which rule did you break? I'm sure there is one there about harassment and believe it or not 'mocking' IS harassment.

don't even try to pull me into a moronic pissing contest with you. It won't work.

Hypocrite. How can you judge me as one member to another, claim I should've been banned longer yet in the same breath say I'm have no right to judge? Seems pretty foolish to me.

But I shall humor you and take my leave. Good luck to all.

[Snakesitter]

My comment was not directed at you. :-) I undersatand you were just trying to sort the issue out. As several have indicated, any potential benefit of feeding in a separate enclosure is more than outweighed by the drawbacks.

[Snakesitter]

I feel you. But everyone asks ignorant questions at some point, and it is only through courteous education that we turn that ignorance into knowledge that can provide a future benefit for the forum. :-)

[EL Ziggy]

I feel you. But everyone asks ignorant questions at some point, and it is only through courteous education that we turn that ignorance into knowledge that can provide a future benefit for the forum. :-)
^^ Bravo^^

[desipooh.12]

My comment was not directed at you. :-) I undersatand you were just trying to sort the issue out. As several have indicated, any potential benefit of feeding in a separate enclosure is more than outweighed by the drawbacks.
not exactly sure if you were directing this at me lol?

[Doug 351]

When I first posted on this thread I had always fed in a separate cage. That was because of advice I got from someone who was pretty snake savvy long ago. After reading some well written posts by extremely knowledgeable people who made some valid points that make sense to me, I am now open to the idea of cage feeding.

While I never experienced many of the potential problems brought up they make sense. The one that I have experienced and never really thought about was how riled up they get post feed.

So this is a good example of a forum at work- the way it should. The less experienced coming here to learn and the more experienced coming here to share. Thank you.

Now as for Korbin- There's no doubt he has chased members away. Hs is the reason I am a member of another snake forum. His statement that a certain member wasn't going to change their mind as justification for his actions just shows how wrong they were. Whether or not that person was open minded enough to digest the information and act on it was not something he could know. And you certainly can't get people to see things your way by disrespecting them. Everyone's opinions should be respected and be allowed to be expressed and addressed in an appropriate manner.