sexing: palpating

[ErikBush97]

Hi. I know how to Palpate BCI's accurately, and I was wondering if I'm looking for the same thing in all snakes while palpating? I.E could I accurately sex a Ball Python or a Rat snake (for example), after learning how to palpate a BCI?

[Will0W783]

I'm not sure what you mean by "palpate." The only fairly accurate means of sexing snakes is with a sexing probe that I know of. Very young snakes (neonates up to several months after birth) can be "popped." This is done by rolling the thumb and forefingers to create pressure on the cloacal areas that causes the hemipenes to pop out in a male. It's not as accurate as probing though, because once the snake has developed muscular control it can still hold in the hemipenes, resulting in males being mistaken as female.
Even probing is not 100%...there is some variability in both sexes and between species. You select an appropriately sized probe, lube it with some KY or Vaseline, and gently insert it into one side of the cloaca, down towards the tail. In males, the probe will go inside the inverted hemipenis; in females it is stopped by the scent glands. You mark how far down the probe has gone and then measure the number of subcaudal scales it passed. Males of most species are 8+, while females are >/= 5.

[ErikBush97]

I'm not sure what you mean by "palpate." The only fairly accurate means of sexing snakes is with a sexing probe that I know of. Very young snakes (neonates up to several months after birth) can be "popped." This is done by rolling the thumb and forefingers to create pressure on the cloacal areas that causes the hemipenes to pop out in a male. It's not as accurate as probing though, because once the snake has developed muscular control it can still hold in the hemipenes, resulting in males being mistaken as female.
Even probing is not 100%...there is some variability in both sexes and between species. You select an appropriately sized probe, lube it with some KY or Vaseline, and gently insert it into one side of the cloaca, down towards the tail. In males, the probe will go inside the inverted hemipenis; in females it is stopped by the scent glands. You mark how far down the probe has gone and then measure the number of subcaudal scales it passed. Males of most species are 8+, while females are >/= 5.
I know what popping and probing is. Palpating is when you run your thumb and index finger down the tail, behind the vent, applying pressure. (Males have speed bumb type things = hemipenes, and females do not). It's very very accurate when done right, and when you are able to practice with known males and known females.

[ErikBush97]

It's a lot less evasive as well, and less likely to injure your snake compared to popping or probing.

[Aaron_S]

It's very very accurate when done right, and when you are able to practice with known males and known females.

So it's very accurate when the sex is already known? Huh. How about that.

[Starbuck]

why is this the first the first i've read about external palpation of snakes for sex determination? Is something that works predominately for boas/pythons (maybe why ive never heard of it?)?


Every one of my reptile texts only mentions probing (extremely safe when done by a trained professional) or popping (more potential for harm, but the accepted rule for most hobbyists and breeders). Where did you find out about palpating?
(im asking seriously, not trying to get on your case)

[LadyWraith]

Never heard of anyone mention this method except to feel for eggs. A search offered a few hits similar to the description, one site was pretty verbatim the description so I'm sure that's where the info came from. That method does not seem very accurate to me. There's more than just hemipenises or none in the cloaca area. One could easily mistaken urates for the described "bumps". I would stick with what Willow said about probing an such.

[MDT]

Dude...you can't get a group of physicians to palpate a human abdomen and agree on specific liver size (much larger than a hemipene)...good luck brother.

If you sell an animal as male or female based on palpation and are wrong, i have a feeling the buyer would be a tad miffed, to put it nicely.

[ErikBush97]

So it's very accurate when the sex is already known? Huh. How about that.

Lol.. I said to practice with known sexes so you know what to look for.

[Terranaut]

Lol.. I said to practice with known sexes so you know what to look for.

Sorry pal but your method is not accurate. Try it on unfamiliar snakes and see.

[MDT]

He'll be correct 50% of the time. :)

[ErikBush97]

So far I've be spot on. I messed up like one of 5-fish. That's not 50%.

[MDT]

My young Padawan.....much to learn, you have.

[DeadlyDesires]

My young Padawan.....much to learn, you have.

lol ... so... i think my "she" boa is a "he" lol.. need to get her probed... i seem to have forgotten the right word for them. but right by her anal those pointy things (lol) they are fairly large and i thought they were small in females :-/ will take her to get probed when i find someone who can do it here.

[ErikBush97]

lol ... so... i think my "she" boa is a "he" lol.. need to get her probed... i seem to have forgotten the right word for them. but right by her anal those pointy things (lol) they are fairly large and i thought they were small in females :-/ will take her to get probed when i find someone who can do it here.

Where ya live? Pet stores & Vets = best places to start.

[DeadlyDesires]

Where ya live? Pet stores & Vets = best places to start.

yea, thats not always true... i'd never bring my snake into a pet store.. and the vets around here aren't as qualified as they should be.

[ErikBush97]

yea, thats not always true... i'd never bring my snake into a pet store.. and the vets around here aren't as qualified as they should be.

Don't know what to tell you then. Other than that - you MIGHT find a breeder who'll do it... Taking a snake to a pet store is safer than taking one around 100's of snakes at a breeder's place. And what do you plan to do if your snake gets sick or hurt??? If you can't find a vet who can sex, you most certainly should not trust them with your snakes life...

[Aaron_S]

Don't know what to tell you then. Other than that - you MIGHT find a breeder who'll do it... Taking a snake to a pet store is safer than taking one around 100's of snakes at a breeder's place. And what do you plan to do if your snake gets sick or hurt??? If you can't find a vet who can sex, you most certainly should not trust them with your snakes life...

Why are you taking a shot at breeders?

You've got your opinion all *** backwards.

Pet stores bring in animals from ANYWHERE. Not all captive bred stuff, imported and from different suppliers.

A breeder like me, and my friends, have our collections on critical lock down pretty much at all times. I know myself and those closest to me are very keen on who we buy from and how we quarantine them. We all spray down new arrivals with Nix even if it comes from each other. Generally, very little actually comes in and pretty much it's only stuff leaving.

I even brought Nix to a show and left it in the car and upon leaving the show nixed myself, my daughter, Lori, my car and the seats and everything.

GOOD breeders are much safer than a pet store.

[ErikBush97]

GOOD breeders are much safer than a pet store.

And would a GOOD, SAFE breeder let someone bring their snake into their facility to sex it?

[ErikBush97]

You've got your opinion all *** backwards.

Lol... Did you really just say that? My opinion is my opinion...

[MDT]

Lol... Did you really just say that? My opinion is my opinion...

And it is uneducated. Not trying to be harsh, but you're incorrect. We can all be uneducated about something. I don't know jack about car repair. If I spout off about how to fix a car and am wrong, then I have offered an uneducated opinion.

You can rely on palpating your snakes if you wish, I doubt very few (if any) reputable breeders would do the same. If you sell a snake as a sexed animal and are wrong, you will have to deal with the ramifications.

[Aaron_S]

And would a GOOD, SAFE breeder let someone bring their snake into their facility to sex it?

Yes. One of the biggest, if not the biggest, ball python breeder in Canada allows a lot of people into his facility (his home) fairly frequently. I also know NERD, BHB and Bob Clark all do tours in the States.

Your opinion may be your opinion but when it's uninformed from lack of experience and it is overly generalizing breeders, which I'm a part of, in a negative way I take offense.

I simply chose to give information that we aren't horrible people as you may think. So others don't just believe your blind opinion and start this hating breeders bandwagon.

[lady_bug87]

Why are you taking a shot at breeders?

You've got your opinion all *** backwards.

Pet stores bring in animals from ANYWHERE. Not all captive bred stuff, imported and from different suppliers.

A breeder like me, and my friends, have our collections on critical lock down pretty much at all times. I know myself and those closest to me are very keen on who we buy from and how we quarantine them. We all spray down new arrivals with Nix even if it comes from each other. Generally, very little actually comes in and pretty much it's only stuff leaving.

I even brought Nix to a show and left it in the car and upon leaving the show nixed myself, my daughter, Lori, my car and the seats and everything.

GOOD breeders are much safer than a pet store.

And the bottoms of our shoes, and the animal I brought home

[ErikBush97]

Yes. One of the biggest, if not the biggest, ball python breeder in Canada allows a lot of people into his facility (his home) fairly frequently. I also know NERD, BHB and Bob Clark all do tours in the States.

Your opinion may be your opinion but when it's uninformed from lack of experience and it is overly generalizing breeders, which I'm a part of, in a negative way I take offense.

I simply chose to give information that we aren't horrible people as you may think. So others don't just believe your blind opinion and start this hating breeders bandwagon.

Well there IS a lot more bad breeders than good ones whether you like it or not. In fact, most (or at least most local breeders) are just sketchy people producing & selling Ball Python's on Craigslist.

[smy_749]

Well there IS a lot more bad breeders than good ones whether you like it or not. In fact, most (or at least most local breeders) are just sketchy people producing & selling Ball Python's on Craigslist.

erik, be quiet.

[Aaron_S]

Well there IS a lot more bad breeders than good ones whether you like it or not. In fact, most (or at least most local breeders) are just sketchy people producing & selling Ball Python's on Craigslist.

Just because you believe any chump (or chumpette) with two snakes to rub together is considered a breeder DOES NOT make it true.

You asked if a good breeder would allow someone into their facility. I answered it. I've backed up my opinions and you have never backed yours. It sounds like a horrible, uninformed one that's based on some hearsay. I'd honestly like to know why you dislike breeders so much.

Now you've changed your tune to any joe blow on craigslist. You clearly have no leg to stand on. So quit making sweeping generalizations about breeders.

[Mikoh4792]

Well there IS a lot more bad breeders than good ones whether you like it or not. In fact, most (or at least most local breeders) are just sketchy people producing & selling Ball Python's on Craigslist.

This generalization is too far fetched. How much experience in the snake breeding world do you have that you can say this with confidence?

No offense but you come off as a teenager who thinks he knows the world and can tell people who have real experience how the world is.

[ErikBush97]

This generalization is too far fetched. How much experience in the snake breeding world do you have that you can say this with confidence?

No offense but you come off as a teenager who thinks he knows the world and can tell people who have real experience how the world is.

Sorry I come off that way. I know a lot of respectable, good breeders, but I also know that there are twice as many bad ones. From personal experience.

[ErikBush97]

Just because you believe any chump (or chumpette) with two snakes to rub together is considered a breeder DOES NOT make it true.

You asked if a good breeder would allow someone into their facility. I answered it. I've backed up my opinions and you have never backed yours. It sounds like a horrible, uninformed one that's based on some hearsay. I'd honestly like to know why you dislike breeders so much.

Now you've changed your tune to any joe blow on craigslist. You clearly have no leg to stand on. So quit making sweeping generalizations about breeders.

Did I say that all breeders are bad? No. So I don't know why you're acting like I said all breeders are jerks or something. Also, yes... Someone who puts a female snake and a male snake together and makes a successful clutch IS A BREEDER. I wouldn't have any snakes if it weren't for breeders, so I do not dislike them. I just hate that a lot of local breeders are irresponsible, and not "GOOD breeders".

[ErikBush97]

Maybe you guys just live in a perfect place with no bad breeders.

[infernalis]

I just hate that a lot of local breeders are irresponsible, and not "GOOD breeders".

Thank you for clarifying. Had this been said up front, I am sure a lot of the negative comments would have never happened.

I have been guilty of saying any bafoon can put two animals together and get babies, To me a genuine breeder has a business permit and a tax number, otherwise, they are not a (professional) breeder.

[ErikBush97]

Thank you for clarifying. Had this been said up front, I am sure a lot of the negative comments would have never happened.

I have been guilty of saying any bafoon can put two animals together and get babies, To me a genuine breeder has a business permit and a tax number, otherwise, they are not a (professional) breeder.

Well there's pro breeders, which is great, but there are still people throwing snakes together thinking it'll make them some cash, or for whatever other bad reasons they do it. I just figure that if there's bad and good breeders here that it's surprising that everyone's acting like they have no idea what I'm talking about.

[DeadlyDesires]

I just figure that if there's bad and good breeders here that it's surprising that everyone's acting like they have no idea what I'm talking about.

This should tell you something, there are a lot of experienced snake owners on here some breeders some not and if they have no idea what you are talking about that means that your "theory" is not one of great interest in the snake community, i guarantee you if this actually worked people would do it more since it would be easier than sticking a probe down a snakes bum. you should really take that into consideration.

[ErikBush97]

This should tell you something, there are a lot of experienced snake owners on here some breeders some not and if they have no idea what you are talking about that means that your "theory" is not one of great interest in the snake community, i guarantee you if this actually worked people would do it more since it would be easier than sticking a probe down a snakes bum. you should really take that into consideration.

I was talking about bad and good breeders. I don't have any ""Theory"", so I don't know what you're talking about. They're acting like they have never came across a bad breeder.

[lady_bug87]

Well there IS a lot more bad breeders than good ones whether you like it or not. In fact, most (or at least most local breeders) are just sketchy people producing & selling Ball Python's on Craigslist.

Go home Erik. You're drunk.

[ErikBush97]

Go home Erik. You're drunk.

I wish...

Might be easier to reply the bull that you guys are posting. I mean you only joined to follow Aaron around and reply to his stupid comments.

[Aaron_S]

Did I say that all breeders are bad? No. So I don't know why you're acting like I said all breeders are jerks or something. Also, yes... Someone who puts a female snake and a male snake together and makes a successful clutch IS A BREEDER. I wouldn't have any snakes if it weren't for breeders, so I do not dislike them. I just hate that a lot of local breeders are irresponsible, and not "GOOD breeders".

1. You made a sweeping generalized statement based on your LOCAL breeders? Bravo.

2. http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/868504-post17.html Because you seem to backtrack when people don't agree with you here's the post making sweeping generalized accusations that it's SAFER to goto a pet store, full of wild caughts, improperly housed and possibly sick animals with no knowledge employees than to a breeders?! You DID not differentiate between local and good or bad. You said breeders without any description. YOU said this. Not me.

3. I do live in a perfect world. I don't associate with bad breeders. I keep my circle close as to limit any potential issues.

4. Gotcha. Any and everybody is a breeder aslong as they've got two animals. Way to put down those that strive for the best. Lumping the pros with the chumps. Thanks for that.

5. Most important point I'm about to make. Don't ever make another accusation that Lori is some sycophant of mine. Her and I may know each other outside this forum(we actually met on it) but she got into this hobby on her own, long before we met and has her own opinions, thoughts and great knowledge. Don't EVER diminish that of her or (anyone else for that matter) because who they may know. With this type of mindset I'm sure you'll get extremely far in the world.

[Terranaut]

Your theory is how you are sexing snakes.
Aaron's comments are valid. You claim to sex snakes in a way that none of us have ever heard of and some of us have been keepers for over 20 yrs and know this method is flawed on so many levels.
Probing or popping....sure. Checking for a package with a slap and tickle is not.
The worst thing I see you do here is ignore the wisdom of long term keepers and arguing against it. This is why your getting flamed.
Had you have asked if this is reliable and why not you could have both learnd something and avoided a mess.

[ErikBush97]

full of wild caughts, improperly housed and possibly sick animals
Breeders snakes cannot get sick? And NO breeders house their snakes wrong?? Thanks for all the new info, Aaron.

And has her own opinions, thoughts and great knowledge.

That's news to me. I am sorry, though. I didn't mean to offend you or your puppy dog.

[ErikBush97]

Your theory is how you are sexing snakes.
Aaron's comments are valid. You claim to sex snakes in a way that none of us have ever heard of and some of us have been keepers for over 20 yrs and know this method is flawed on so many levels.
Probing or popping....sure. Checking for a package with a slap and tickle is not.
The worst thing I see you do here is ignore the wisdom of long term keepers and arguing against it. This is why your getting flamed.
Had you have asked if this is reliable and why not you could have both learnd something and avoided a mess.

Every single person I've talked to knows about palpating. It was pretty surprising to hear that none of you had heard about it. I would not trust your "wisdom" or opinion if you describe palpating as slapping and tickling. I'll stick with what everyone local knows and uses regularly to sex their animals. Only male + female = baby snakes, and if palpating is so inaccurate, I'd like to know how local breeders are producing babies.

[Aaron_S]

Breeders snakes cannot get sick? And NO breeders house their snakes wrong?? Thanks for all the new info, Aaron.



That's news to me.

1. You're making those sweeping generalized statement against breeders again. You're painting the whole in a poor light because YOU happen to surround yourself with low grade, wannabe breeders.

Is it difficult to have a train of thought that leads to the idea that if someone is a GOOD breeder that they DON'T house their snakes wrong. Wouldn't the fact that they ARE breeders tell you that they house them correctly?

Breeders can have sick animals but YOUR making it seem like their entire collection is sick and it'll lead to your single animal dying or something like that. Would you not have some common sense to think any breeder would have a quarantine practice AWAY from their BUSINESS so they can continue to make money with it? No? You keep wanting to prove your point that we're horrible people.

Lastly, you clearly can't grasp the idea that two friends can actually share similar thoughts and agree upon practices. Is it wrong that a friend would do so? I guess I don't have a brain either because I agree with Wayne in his monitor keeping?! No one is allowed to agree just because they are friends and have meaningful discussions about husbandry outside of the forum! :O I guess when you're life isn't making fries it allows you those freedoms to enjoy the outside world.

You're such a toolbag. You can't keep the discussion actually about the topic and head off to petty remarks about two friends. I guess when you've got no leg to stand on it's all you're left with. Petty remarks towards a woman who's got far more intelligence than you'll ever possess.

[Aaron_S]

Every single person I've talked to knows about palpating. It was pretty surprising to hear that none of you had heard about it. I would not trust your "wisdom" or opinion if you describe palpating as slapping and tickling. I'll stick with what everyone local knows and uses regularly to sex their animals. Only male + female = baby snakes, and if palpating is so inaccurate, I'd like to know how local breeders are producing babies.

Wait. I thought all the local "breeders" were pretty bad? So why would you take their word on this but then try to save face in your previous argument by saying it's LOCAL bad breeders you're talking about?

[nyx]

Every single person I've talked to knows about palpating. It was pretty surprising to hear that none of you had heard about it. I would not trust your "wisdom" or opinion if you describe palpating as slapping and tickling. I'll stick with what everyone local knows and uses regularly to sex their animals. Only male + female = baby snakes, and if palpating is so inaccurate, I'd like to know how local breeders are producing babies.

One of the best things about the internet is that someone can, figuratively, stand in a group of ten people who are all telling him that he's wrong, and he can still insist, at the top of his lungs, that he is absolutely right. I'm not really sure you could get this kind of entertainment in the old days. Maybe at the county fair?

By the way, African house snakes and corn snakes are known for breeding when being stuck together in a bag for transport. What intelligence level do you think it requires to put >1 snake in a bag and drive around for a while?

[ErikBush97]

1. You're making those sweeping generalized statement against breeders again. You're painting the whole in a poor light because YOU happen to surround yourself with low grade, wannabe breeders.

Is it difficult to have a train of thought that leads to the idea that if someone is a GOOD breeder that they DON'T house their snakes wrong. Wouldn't the fact that they ARE breeders tell you that they house them correctly?

Breeders can have sick animals but YOUR making it seem like their entire collection is sick and it'll lead to your single animal dying or something like that. Would you not have some common sense to think any breeder would have a quarantine practice AWAY from their BUSINESS so they can continue to make money with it? No? You keep wanting to prove your point that we're horrible people.

Lastly, you clearly can't grasp the idea that two friends can actually share similar thoughts and agree upon practices. Is it wrong that a friend would do so? I guess I don't have a brain either because I agree with Wayne in his monitor keeping?! No one is allowed to agree just because they are friends and have meaningful discussions about husbandry outside of the forum! :O I guess when you're life isn't making fries it allows you those freedoms to enjoy the outside world.

You're such a toolbag. You can't keep the discussion actually about the topic and head off to petty remarks about two friends. I guess when you've got no leg to stand on it's all you're left with. Petty remarks towards a woman who's got far more intelligence than you'll ever possess.

Lol! Calm down... And sorry. I've just never liked to kid standing off to then side going "yeah!! What he said!". if she's so smart, how come the only posts i've ever seen from her were to you or ridiculous, and not about the subject of the post? It's okay for her to go off topics but I cant? Um... Okay, then. Sorry that your anus hurts so badly.

[ErikBush97]

QUOTE=nyx;868595]One of the best things about the internet is that someone can, figuratively, stand in a group of ten people who are all telling him that he's wrong, and he can still insist, at the top of his lungs, that he is absolutely right. I'm not really sure you could get this kind of entertainment in the old days. Maybe at the county fair?

By the way, African house snakes and corn snakes are known for breeding when being stuck together in a bag for transport. What intelligence level do you think it requires to put >1 snake in a bag and drive around for a while?[/QUOTE]

That does not make the other nine people correct... They're all butt buddies. One person's opinion is the rest of "their" opinion(s).

[MDT]

Dude..how old are you? Seriously, now would be a great time to stop posting utter horse crap and just accept that you still need to learn.

[ErikBush97]

Wait. I thought all the local "breeders" were pretty bad? So why would you take their word on this but then try to save face in your previous argument by saying it's LOCAL bad breeders you're th about?

When did I say all local breeders are bad? Lol Get your facts straight. BTW: wanna talk about going off subject? This post was about palpating snakes besides Boas, and you started going off about breeders, and giving your opinions. ****ing hypocrite....

[ErikBush97]

So... No one here has heard of palpating but all of you know it is inaccurate? None of you are as wise as you think. At least do some research before you preach about what works and what doesn't...

[ErikBush97]

Dude..how old are you? Seriously, now would be a great time to stop posting utter horse crap and just accept that you still need to learn.

Go somewhere else if you don't like it.

[Aaron_S]

Lol! Calm down... And sorry. I've just never liked to kid standing off to then side going "yeah!! What he said!". if she's so smart, how come the only posts i've ever seen from her were to you or ridiculous, and not about the subject of the post? It's okay for her to go off topics but I cant? Um... Okay, then. Sorry that your anus hurts so badly.

I am calm. I happen to dislike you painting me and my business in such a negative manner for no reason in your generalized statements. You can actually be harming my income for your flippant remarks.

You clearly don't see her own threads and posts. You can't look at a small sample size and make vast generalized statements. Wait a minute...

Sure we joke around, like many of us do who are friends but that doesn't take away from someone's intelligence. I'm sorry you see us as the 'cool kids' and are again on the outside looking in like you were in high school. That isn't my problem or hers. It's purely yours.

Also, what's your problem with people who agree with one another? I've had actually discussions with many I'd consider friends on the forum and if we disagree we don't consider the other a butt buddy of someone else.

I'd say 9 people agreeing and one disagreeing that the one person should re-check their facts and come back with a valid argument instead of petty remarks about the others.

[MDT]

So... No one here has heard of palpating but all of you know it is inaccurate? None of you are as wise as you think. At least do some research before you preach about what works and what doesn't...

Why do you think that NO ONE ON THIS BOARD full of extremely experienced keepers and breeders uses this method? Because it's not accurate or reliable. If you have a hypothesis and that hypothesis has been found to be lacking and you still won't consider the fallacy of your hypothesis, then you sir are a complete moron.

[marvelfreak]

So... No one here has heard of palpating but all of you know it is inaccurate? None of you are as wise as you think. At least do some research before you preach about what works and what doesn't...
Actually i have heard of it and ask a breeder i know how to do it. Back in March of this year we tried it with 6 of my snakes. Then he popped them to see if it worked. Only one came up the same sex when popped. The other 5 were the opposite sex of what we thought when we tried palpating. He told me that's why he doesn't use it as it's unreliable.

[Aaron_S]

When did I say all local breeders are bad? Lol Get your facts straight. BTW: wanna talk about going off subject? This post was about palpating snakes besides Boas, and you started going off about breeders, and giving your opinions. ****ing hypocrite....

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/868571-post29.html

You don't remember your own posts do you?

Sure I'm a hypocrite but you made generalized statements about what I do that are very uninformed. I take offense to that considering I make an income off it and I don't need someone saying we're bad for no reason.

[ErikBush97]

I am calm. I happen to dislike you painting me and my business in such a negative manner for no reason in your generalized statements. You can actually be harming my income for your flippant remarks.

You clearly don't see her own threads and posts. You can't look at a small sample size and make vast generalized statements. Wait a minute...

Sure we joke around, like many of us do who are friends but that doesn't take away from someone's intelligence. I'm sorry you see us as the 'cool kids' and are again on the outside looking in like you were in high school. That isn't my problem or hers. It's purely yours.

Also, what's your problem with people who agree with one another? I've had actually discussions with many I'd consider friends on the forum and if we disagree we don't consider the other a butt buddy of someone else.

I'd say 9 people agreeing and one disagreeing that the one person should re-check their facts and come back with a valid argument instead of petty remarks about the others.

I don't have a single issue with people agreeing. Unless they're only saying something because someone else said it. Don't see any generalizations... I said that their are a lot of bad breeders in the world. I'd consider you a good breeder based on what you've told me. I don't have an issue with breeders - I plan on breeding eventually... BTW: you said that YOU surround yourself with good breeders... This specific topic was brought up because DeadlyDesires needed his snake sexed, and I suggested breeders. Just because YOU surround yourself with other good breeders doesn't mean you should assume that everyone else does. I just don't see why everyone says palpation is inaccurate if they haven't heard of it before this.

[ErikBush97]

Actually i have heard of it and ask a breeder i know how to do it. Back in March of this year we tried it with 6 of my snakes. Then he popped them to see if it worked. Only one came up the same sex when popped. The other 5 were the opposite sex of what we thought when we tried palpating. He told me that's why he doesn't use it as it's unreliable.

Touche, MarvelFreak

[ErikBush97]

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/868571-post29.html

You don't remember your own posts do you?

Sure I'm a hypocrite but you made generalized statements about what I do that are very uninformed. I take offense to that considering I make an income off it and I don't need someone saying we're bad for no reason.

I am still confused as to why you think I ever once said that all breeders are bad... If you don't understand what I was saying, sorry to hear... I'm not going to keep saying it.

[infernalis]

Folks, I have completely run out of patience for this crap.

Erik, I have banned you for inciting unwarranted drama and calling Lori a puppy dog.

I suggest that you reevaluate your demeanor on forums, or this will repeat itself everywhere you go.