Ringer question

[Lickeypie]

A few months ago, I went to an expo with a purpose... to buy a boa, however I walked out with this guy as well. He was a complete impulse buy. He's 66% het pied, and I couldn't resist. So my question is, how much would you pay for a ringer and are they actually sought after/ worth breeding?

http://31.media.tumblr.com/e4a1221e9030ac1c805a981b6b07b988/tumblr_mqlvojua9C1qen9jzo2_1280.jpg

http://31.media.tumblr.com/9a99021eebd5fb69f77c89968a3799a3/tumblr_mqlvojua9C1qen9jzo1_1280.jpg

http://31.media.tumblr.com/10f16dafb703b522e868cd9ced6f21ec/tumblr_msknwxM44U1qen9jzo1_1280.jpg

(Also, he had lighter scales on his head when I got him, and you can see them in those photos... what is that?)

[poison123]

Het pied? Looks like he has a pied mark on him lol. Not sure what a "ringer" is.

Edit: just googled "ringer ball python" and I now see what you are talking about. Carry on :)

[smy_749]

Dunno how much they go for, but I thought if it shows the 'ringer' marking, that its def a het pied? Anyways, about the sought after/worth breeding. You aren't concerned with the ringer, the animal you should be asking about are pieds since he is a het or 66% (not sure how that works). Breeding will produce pieds, which are still fairly high in price so I would say its worth it. Find another het or invest in a visual female.

[Lickeypie]

I wish I could afford a female pied c:

In my eyes, he was worth the $25 gamble, I just got suckered in!

[Aaron_S]

Dunno how much they go for, but I thought if it shows the 'ringer' marking, that its def a het pied? Anyways, about the sought after/worth breeding. You aren't concerned with the ringer, the animal you should be asking about are pieds since he is a het or 66% (not sure how that works). Breeding will produce pieds, which are still fairly high in price so I would say its worth it. Find another het or invest in a visual female.

66% hets come from a 100% het x 100% het breeding.
What you get from that breeding is:
1/4 visuals
2/4 100% hets
1/4 normals

Since anything not visual all look the same (normals) you can't tell the hets from the non hets. Since it's 2/3 of the babies of the normal babies that are hets there's a 66% possible chance it is!

Now ringers, to my knowledge they are NOT genetic at this time. You can't breed for more by putting a ringer x ringer.

Now the one in question is a really nice ringer and the surrounding area is really looking like a pied so it's a really nice one. I'd breed it to a visual pied if possible and see what happens.

[Lickeypie]

Thanks aaron, you pretty much answered everything that i was wondering! But what about the lighter scales on his head?

Do ringers have a higher chance of being het?

[Aaron_S]

For his scales, in the second pic they look raised on the head or it's just the angle and it's just a discolouration. If it's discolour I'd just ignore it as something random for now.

Ringers to my knowledge don't have a higher chance. Some people may think so but I do not.

Personally, if I were into pieds I'd think he'd be worth proving out as the odd amount of ringer is very much like pied.

[smy_749]

Ah ok makes sense. I just remember reading on facebook somewhere that even hets show some tell tale signs so some breeders can tell to some degree or so they say. Figured ringer might be one of those deals

[Lickeypie]

Is it possible to get 50% het?

[smy_749]

Is it possible to get 50% het?

Yes. A visual to a normal will give 50% chance for het.

[Aaron_S]

Yes. A visual to a normal will give 50% chance for het.

Don't speak about something you clearly have no understanding about.

Yes it's possible to get 50% hets.

A visual to a normal gives you all 100% hets.
50% hets come from one parent being a normal and one parent being a 100% het.

How recessive genes work is that both parents need to carry gene and pass it onto their offspring for them to become visuals or the proper term, homozygous.

Now how they pass them on is where you get the degrees of possible hets and they are only possible because there will be complete normals in there and you can't tell them apart so it's a 1 in 2 per animal in getting a het.

As a homozygous(visual) animal it passes one copy of it's gene to EACH baby.
As a 100% het it only passes it's copy to HALF of the babies. So when bred to the normal half should be het and half will be normal. The only way to figure it out is to breed them.

To take it one step further if I breed a homozygous to a 100% heterozygous I should get half the babies being homo and half being het.

It's only averages though and anything can happen. I saw this year a friend who bred homo to het twice and got 6 eggs in both clutches and both times got 5 homos and only 1 het. That's 2 above the average. It does swing both ways though.

As for markers some say they can find them but I just don't believe it's conclusive as of yet and prefer to stay the road of caution and not gamble on them when I will spend a bit more and get guaranteed hets.

[Lickeypie]

Do you think he is worth proving out? Lets say, if I buy a 100% het pied female, if he turns out to be het, then i have 25% chance of getting a visual pied? Is that correct or am I off?

[Aaron_S]

Do you think he is worth proving out? Lets say, if I buy a 100% het pied female, if he turns out to be het, then i have 25% chance of getting a visual pied? Is that correct or am I off?

Yes that's correct.

It could take a couple years though or producing babies to prove him out though. As I said it's averages and it may not show the first or second time.

[Will0W783]

Aaron, aren't there het pied markers? I think it's a gray/black stripe that delineates the side and belly scales...I'm not 100% sure on measuring markers, but I've seen people look at het pieds and say they have the markers or do not.

[KORBIN5895]

Fiscally it's only worth breeding it to a visual.

[Aaron_S]

Aaron, aren't there het pied markers? I think it's a gray/black stripe that delineates the side and belly scales...I'm not 100% sure on measuring markers, but I've seen people look at het pieds and say they have the markers or do not.

The problem is not all hets have them so it's inconclusive.

I can breed a pied to a normal and I know all hets are 100% hets but not all will show the markers.

The reason markers were ever brought up was because het pieds were thousands and possible hets were less than that so people tried to find ways to pick hets out of possible hets.

I wouldn't say they are a 100% guarantee but sure use them if one wishes.

[Lickeypie]

Isn't rail road tracks or something like that another one of those supposed markers?

Here are some more photos of him:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/5149b433605e2b516375618d9bae5e27/tumblr_msmjtuTIcP1qen9jzo1_1280.jpg

http://31.media.tumblr.com/5abcce6b2d13ceb29379bd90509a8680/tumblr_msmjtuTIcP1qen9jzo3_1280.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/a0d289f85795af791c171530bc57d8db/tumblr_msmjtuTIcP1qen9jzo4_1280.jpg

http://31.media.tumblr.com/66a92d7bac0a42da60aa59d9a7d4d998/tumblr_msmjtuTIcP1qen9jzo5_1280.jpg

[Aaron_S]

Yes, those are considered het markers.

I do know of some animals showing those marks and NOT being hets as well though.

Regardless, if you want to make pieds on the cheap and just for fun and gamble on possible hets, get a 100% het female and raise it up.

[Lickeypie]

I will definitely keep my eyes open for one at the next expo :)