Ball Python's = Pet rocks.

[ErikBush97]

Look at how Fat, and lazy my Ball Python is... Ball Python's also are not arboreal or semi-arboreal... Think there's quite a bit of false info out there since I consider this a lazy day for him! Either you'll say they are lazy, or say there's something wrong with husbandry, if they are out and about, so I don't think I can win here lol. But I do not consider my Ball Python lazy, and most definitely not a "pet rock"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTkMTLBSHQY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjwWGiGiYjM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Mikoh4792]

Your rampage video is hilarious.

I've seen my ball pythons roam around only at night.

[Little Wise Owl]

My Ball Pythons are usually on the move. They're anything but lazy.

[pdomensis]

Yeah, but they still look like glorified bananna slugs.

[SnakeyJay]

Yeah, but they still look like glorified bananna slugs.

Hahahaha so true. :D

[Hurrok]

They definitely aren't as 'lazy' as most people say, we have one in a large terrarium that we can view and she moves around a fair amount. However at night that is when you see the most action ;)

[ErikBush97]

They definitely aren't as 'lazy' as most people say, we have one in a large terrarium that we can view and she moves around a fair amount. However at night that is when you see the most action ;)

Exactly! This was shot at like 5:00. Sun was out and everything. I'll wake up and all her bedding will look like it was thrown around and stuff. He's definitely one strange snake.

[ErikBush97]

Yeah, but they still look like glorified bananna slugs.

If you let them get fat. I've seen some lean Ball Python's before and they actually look good.

[franks]

I agree Eric, mine are fairly active as well.

[ErikBush97]

I agree Eric, mine are fairly active as well.

The main bad thing I hear about Ball Python's is that they're lazy. I think the people who call them lazy just don't pay enough attention to them. Not going to lie, though... I was surprised that my little fatty could pull himself up onto his perch lol

[ErikBush97]

Your rampage video is hilarious.

I've seen my ball pythons roam around only at night.

Haha thanks. I was watching the interview, and just hardly caught that.
Still have no idea why I put it on YouTube, though. Lol

[StudentoReptile]

I have made the lazy statements before. Granted my snake is over 20 yrs old though.

[ErikBush97]

I have made the lazy statements before. Granted my snake is over 20 yrs old though.

That makes more sense.

[TheZoo]

my older one is really only active when hes out of his enclosure my little one zooms around however miss beauty queen will have her resting days also

[smy_749]

Maybe not lazy, but what about in comparison to other species? Thats what you should really be discussing...

[Aaron_S]

Look at how Fat, and lazy my Ball Python is... Ball Python's also are not arboreal or semi-arboreal... Think there's quite a bit of false info out there since I consider this a lazy day for him! Either you'll say they are lazy, or say there's something wrong with husbandry, if they are out and about, so I don't think I can win here lol. But I do not consider my Ball Python lazy, and most definitely not a "pet rock"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTkMTLBSHQY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjwWGiGiYjM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

So what you're telling me is because sometimes my ball pythons spend time submerged in their water dish that they are aquatic? According to your description of arboreal/semi-arboreal

[ErikBush97]

Maybe not lazy, but what about in comparison to other species? Thats what you should really be discussing...

Obviously something like a rat snake is going to be more active lol
Here's my most to least active snakes in that order.

1. Ball Python
2. Corn snake
3. Male BCI
4. Female BCI.

[smy_749]

So what you're telling me is because sometimes my ball pythons spend time submerged in their water dish that they are aquatic? According to your description of arboreal/semi-arboreal

Check them again, you might have some chubby sea kraits man.

[ErikBush97]

So what you're telling me is because sometimes my ball pythons spend time submerged in their water dish that they are aquatic? According to your description of arboreal/semi-arboreal

Nope. Arboreal or Semi-arboreal meaning: lives in/spends time in trees/enjoys climbing, etc... Why would a snake that is not even semi arboreal spend as much time on a perch as mine? He sometimes will actually sit on it, all wrapped up like a GTP. A snake that has no desire to climb or spend time in trees would not do that.

[ErikBush97]

Check them again, you might have some chubby sea kraits man.

"Chubby sea kraits"?

[smy_749]

Nope. Arboreal or Semi-arboreal meaning: lives in/spends time in trees/enjoys climbing, etc... Why would a snake that is not even semi arboreal spend as much time on a perch as mine? He sometimes will actually sit on it, all wrapped up like a GTP. A snake that has no desire to climb or spend time in trees would not do that.

There is a big difference between spending time in, and living in the trees. I can 'spend time' in a tree....

Arboreal snakes live in the trees, thats how its defined. Ball pythons are not arboreal, or semi-arboreal. And EVEN IF you observed that behavior in your 2 foot tub, it doesn't mean that wild ball pythons are living in trees....

Don't start basing your knowledge of wild behavior of a species based on what you've observed from your one BP, or you will end up like a certain varanid keeper hahahahaha

[Aaron_S]

Nope. Arboreal or Semi-arboreal meaning: lives in/spends time in trees/enjoys climbing, etc... Why would a snake that is not even semi arboreal spend as much time on a perch as mine? He sometimes will actually sit on it, all wrapped up like a GTP. A snake that has no desire to climb or spend time in trees would not do that.

So you ARE telling me my snake is aquatic. It spends days in the water dish. Not necessarily in shed either so it HAS to be aquatic. It HAS to like it and what everyone else in the world has discovered is wrong! There are NO exceptions to ANY rule. Whoa! Blew my mind.

[ErikBush97]

There is a big difference between spending time in, and living in the trees. I can 'spend time' in a tree....

Arboreal snakes live in the trees, thats how its defined. Ball pythons are not arboreal, or semi-arboreal. And EVEN IF you observed that behavior in your 2 foot tub, it doesn't mean that wild ball pythons are living in trees....

Don't start basing your knowledge of wild behavior of a species based on what you've observed from your one BP, or you will end up like a certain varanid keeper hahahahaha

Oh. That's neat that you went and observed wild Ball Pythons! Since Arboreal is an animal that lives in a tree, terrestrial is an animal that lives on the ground, and mines enjoys both, what is he? Since semi arboreal isn't the right term, I may have to take a minute to think about this.

[ErikBush97]

So you ARE telling me my snake is aquatic. It spends days in the water dish. Not necessarily in shed either so it HAS to be aquatic. It HAS to like it and what everyone else in the world has discovered is wrong! There are NO exceptions to ANY rule. Whoa! Blew my mind.

Yup! :) Congrats on the discovery

[smy_749]

Oh. That's neat that you went and observed wild Ball Pythons! Since Arboreal is an animal that lives in a tree, terrestrial is an animal that lives on the ground, and mines enjoys both, what is he? Since semi arboreal isn't the right term, I may have to take a minute to think about this.

.....Are you serious are just trolling now?

[ErikBush97]

So you ARE telling me my snake is aquatic. It spends days in the water dish. Not necessarily in shed either so it HAS to be aquatic. It HAS to like it and what everyone else in the world has discovered is wrong! There are NO exceptions to ANY rule. Whoa! Blew my mind.

Lol and if I didn't have a video of him roaming around, you'd call him a lazy turd...

[franks]

The main bad thing I hear about Ball Python's is that they're lazy. I think the people who call them lazy just don't pay enough attention to them. Not going to lie, though... I was surprised that my little fatty could pull himself up onto his perch lol

Mine will climb around as well. He would dump himself on a little tree in there and periscope down in ambush mode. And I think you are onto something about the "fat thing." Many people that keep them and most people that write the caresheets are breeders and power feed their snakes. I think this is at the very least partially due to how people view their behavior.

[ErikBush97]

Mine will climb around as well. He would dump himself on a little tree in there and periscope down in ambush mode. And I think you are onto something about the "fat thing." Many people that keep them and most people that write the caresheets are breeders and power feed their snakes. I think this is at the very least partially due to how people view their behavior.

'Like'
Also, if 10 people call them lazy here, but they are actually decently active, it's easy for someone else who doesn't own one to see this and call them lazy.

[franks]

.....Are you serious are just trolling now?

Hes slipping into troll-mode. Eric is a good kid, very enthusiastic, but he does have a troll mode button.

@ Eric, For the sake of conversation maybe avoid the sweeping generalizations? You will meet less resistance. Oh, and my dog just caught a fly in mid-air. How cool is that?

[Aaron_S]

Lol and if I didn't have a video of him roaming around, you'd call him a lazy turd...

They are lazy!

As I said, exceptions to rules. I've got plenty of them here that I could argue against you with.

I was just having fun with you though.

[smy_749]

Just for the record, I'm disagreeing with the arboreal and semi-arboreal claims. I didn't say they weren't active, I said they were less active in comparison with other species.

[ErikBush97]

Hes slipping into troll-mode. Eric is a good kid, very enthusiastic, but he does have a troll mode button.

@ Eric, For the sake of conversation maybe avoid the sweeping generalizations? You will meet less resistance. Oh, and my dog just caught a fly in mid-air. How cool is that?

I'm always in troll-mode. And by Aarons manipulation of context your dog must be airborne :)

[franks]

Just for the record, I'm disagreeing with the arboreal and semi-arboreal claims. I didn't say they weren't active, I said they were less active in comparison with other species.

I think most snakes will make use of perches or ledges that are available to them while exploring. I agree that this does not mean semi-arboreal. Semi-arboreal is a carpet python. If you had one (Eric) you would immediately understand the difference.

[ErikBush97]

Just for the record, I'm disagreeing with the arboreal and semi-arboreal claims. I didn't say they weren't active, I said they were less active in comparison with other species.

I think breeder Ball Python's are fat and lazy but when your intent is to keep them lean, they are just as active as a lot of other species.

[Aaron_S]

I'm always in troll-mode. And by Aarons manipulation of context your dog must be airborne :)

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't manipulate anything.

I simply took your context and definition and applied it in a similar way to show the error of your ways.

Some people simply can't admit to being wrong and try to blame others.

[franks]

I'm always in troll-mode. And by Aarons manipulation of context your dog must be airborne :)

Lol I literally laughed out loud. He is a little airborne I guess. He is a 65lb Australian Shepherd and catches flies and bees in mid air all day. Also, since he is a shepherd and has no sheep, he tries to tend my monitor and snakes, its pretty funny.

Anyway, mabey this escaped you Eric, but I am pretty sure Aaron was being sarcastic as a response to you claiming ball pythons were semi-arboreal after experiencing one (a younger one too by the looks) trying to climb.

[Aaron_S]

I think breeder Ball Python's are fat and lazy but when your intent is to keep them lean, they are just as active as a lot of other species.

So now you're talking about breeder ball pythons that you have no clue on?!

Sorry child but you're now treading in water that you aren't prepared for. Better go back to the kiddie pool before your floaties can't keep you above the water.

[ErikBush97]

They are lazy!

As I said, exceptions to rules. I've got plenty of them here that I could argue against you with.

I was just having fun with you though.

I'm just saying.. If I show you that mines not lazy, there's something else that someone wants to argue about lol

[smy_749]

I stole this from another forum (bp.net) and I like the answer very much.

" This comes up all the time. I think that there are definitive answers in all of the threads like this. Ball Pythons are NOT arboreal. Now the problem is that a bunch of people will jump on and talk about how their ball python climbs. No it doesn't. Your BP climbs over branches just like it would climb over branches in the wild. Ball Pythons do not climb trees in the wild and spend large amounts of time in those trees. Let me put this another way. Are humans aquatic. I don't think that anyone would say that humans are even semi aquatic. Seeing people going for a swim does not make them aquatic. The fact that some people deep see dive does not make them aquatic. The fact is that if you have a pool in the back yard you run the risk of a human drowning in that pool. Because we are not aquatic. Just like a pool for humans you can provide branches for your BP but make sure they are secure and low to the ground. Young BP might strike you as great climbers but I can tell you that that they are not. They are great fallers. Go check out a green tree python and then ask yourself is a BP arboreal? Ball Pythons are a terrestrial snake that will explore its surroundings."

[ErikBush97]

So now you're talking about breeder ball pythons that you have no clue on?!

Sorry child but you're now treading in water that you aren't prepared for. Better go back to the kiddie pool before your floaties can't keep you above the water.

But I don't like the kiddie pool :(

[Aaron_S]

I'm just saying.. If I show you that mines not lazy, there's something else that someone wants to argue about lol

When you learn the definition of the phrase "exception to the rule" come back to this.

[ErikBush97]

The fact is that if you have a pool in the back yard you run the risk of a human drowning in that pool. Because we are not aquatic

Humans can drown = they are NOT aquatic, right?
So... No arboreal snakes have EVER fallen out of a tree or off a branch? Lol

[lady_bug87]

So you ARE telling me my snake is aquatic. It spends days in the water dish. Not necessarily in shed either so it HAS to be aquatic. It HAS to like it and what everyone else in the world has discovered is wrong! There are NO exceptions to ANY rule. Whoa! Blew my mind.

we speak far too often.
when I read stuff like this in my head my brain pairs your voice with it and its odd.

[ErikBush97]

Okay... I give up. I do see your points, and this little fatty falls all the time. I bet he can fall while he's slithering on the ground, he's so clumsy... Not arboreal.

[Mikoh4792]

I will agree that ball pythons don't have to be "lazy" but climbing a feet or so shouldn't be considered semi-aboreal. As mentioned before, it's just a snake climbing over an area close to the ground. An example of a semi-arboreal snake would be a carpet python, or grey rat snake. These two types of snakes spend large amounts of their time in actual trees, not just branches. If you see these snakes in the wild you will see them up in the tree tops just as often as you would see them roaming around on the ground. I don't have the experience to make this claim, but I doubt you would see a ball python spending it's day or even night up in a tree. Maybe in a small bush but how can that be considered semi-arboreal?

[smy_749]

Okay... I give up. I do see your points, and this little fatty falls all the time. I bet he can fall while he's slithering on the ground, he's so clumsy... Not arboreal.

You ran out of battery power quicker than usual today. Turn your troll settings to minimum for the next round

[lady_bug87]

I think hes still "on probation"

[franks]

When you learn the definition of the phrase "exception to the rule" come back to this.

Lets not beat up on the kid. He is trying deductive reasoning. Instead of doing this through questions, he is doing this through sweeping generalizations, but he is trying to think through this stuff. "I have a skinny active ball python, and most people have fat lazy ball pythons, therefore weight must = activity" whether accurate or not is not an outlandish conclusion.

@ Eric- Age also might be a factor. Yours looks like it is about 1 yr old. In my (limited) experience, they seem most active around this mark.

[ErikBush97]

You ran out of battery power quicker than usual today. Turn your troll settings to minimum for the next round

Forgot to bring my extra battery for my iTroll :/

[ErikBush97]

I think hes still "on probation"

I am.



Dubcrumnczeeop

[Aaron_S]

we speak far too often.
when I read stuff like this in my head my brain pairs your voice with it and its odd.

It's incredibly sexy isn't it?

[smy_749]

Forgot to bring my extra battery for my iTroll :/

Everyone knows you can't carry an extra battery for apple products. Grab a galaxy Stroll

[lady_bug87]

It's incredibly sexy isn't it?

you have nooo idea blue eyes

[Mikoh4792]

Everyone knows you can't carry an extra battery for apple products. Grab a galaxy Stroll

http://i.imgur.com/1i0NH.gif

[ErikBush97]

Lets not beat up on the kid. He is trying deductive reasoning. Instead of doing this through questions, he is doing this through sweeping generalizations, but he is trying to think through this stuff. "I have a skinny active ball python, and most people have fat lazy ball pythons, therefore weight must = activity" whether accurate or not is not an outlandish conclusion.

@ Eric- Age also might be a factor. Yours looks like it is about 1 yr old. In my (limited) experience, they seem most active around this mark.

I don't even know his age :/ he's 288 grams, 2'6"(ish). Either way. And they reason i concluded that is because wouldn't being more lean muscle than blubber help him be more active? It helps every other animal on the planet.

[lady_bug87]

http://i.imgur.com/1i0NH.gif

hahahahahahahahaha

[ErikBush97]

Everyone knows you can't carry an extra battery for apple products. Grab a galaxy Stroll

Haha. Have the SII, IRL.

[Aaron_S]

you have nooo idea blue eyes

Just put it on repeat...

[smy_749]

I don't even know his age :/ he's 288 grams, 2'6"(ish). Either way. And they reason i concluded that is because wouldn't being more lean muscle than blubber help him be more active? It helps every other animal on the planet.


They aren't designed to be a 'lean' snake. Not saying captive balls are in ideal physical condition, but they are not lean nor arboreally designed.

Another example is a blood python...which some people observe using cage branches to climb. I don't think ANYONE would argue that bloods are arboreal though... Unless so are penguins and sulcatas

[Aaron_S]

I don't even know his age :/ he's 288 grams, 2'6"(ish). Either way. And they reason i concluded that is because wouldn't being more lean muscle than blubber help him be more active? It helps every other animal on the planet.

ball pythons aren't really "lean" animals. They are relatively robust for their size. That doesn't mean they should be overweight but a nice round ball python is healthy for it's species.

You can't go changing their physiology because you feel it's better for them. They've got this down to a science on their own.

[franks]

Forgot to bring my extra battery for my iTroll :/

This song is called "kill the troll"
WIZARD- Midgards Guardian- CLIP - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psaB89EodVY)

[ErikBush97]

They aren't designed to be a 'lean' snake. Not saying captive balls are in ideal physical condition, but they are not lean nor arboreally designed.

Another example is a blood python...which some people observe using cage branches to climb. I don't think ANYONE would argue that bloods are arboreal though... Unless so are penguins and sulcatas

Yuck.. If we want to talk about a fat lazy snake, there's a good one.. And I have seen some nice lean Ball Pythons. I'm not getting mine a gym membership or a personal trainer but I'm not going to let him be a big fat ball of scales that only knows how to lay in one spot.

[franks]

I don't even know his age :/ he's 288 grams, 2'6"(ish). Either way. And they reason i concluded that is because wouldn't being more lean muscle than blubber help him be more active? It helps every other animal on the planet.

288 grams is very much the reason he is climbing so much. Its like how I would be able to do much less pull-ups if I put on 20 lbs.

[ErikBush97]

This song is called "kill the troll"
WIZARD- Midgards Guardian- CLIP - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psaB89EodVY)

I love Metroll .. Get it? Get it? :D song was.. Metal. 'Bout trolls and stuff..
*crickets chirp*

[smy_749]

Yuck.. If we want to talk about a fat lazy snake, there's a good one.. And I have seen some nice lean Ball Pythons. I'm not getting mine a gym membership or a personal trainer but I'm not going to let him be a big fat ball of scales that only knows how to lay in one spot.


You can't control the physiology of the snake, its not up to you. A healthy , well fed ball python is going to develop a rounded shape whether you like it or not. Its fine that you don't want to overfeed and have an obese animal, but an adult ball is a rounded 'chubbier' looking species. Maybe now you can't see it, but if your snake maintains a healthy weight and diet, you will see more change as he gets older, and less activity as well.

Most ambush species are the same design, evolution is wonderful really. Gaboons, death adders, bloods, etc. are some of the more extreme examples

[ErikBush97]

288 grams is very much the reason he is climbing so much. Its like how I would be able to do much less pull-ups if I put on 20 lbs.

Don't be jealous because my snakes are thin and sexy!

[lady_bug87]

want to see thin and sexy? I WILL SHOW YOU THIN AND SEXY

[Aaron_S]

want to see thin and sexy? I WILL SHOW YOU THIN AND SEXY

You DO talk to me too much.

All this shameless self promotion of your ATB's....

[lady_bug87]

I have to take a break from ball python world SOMETIMES

[Aaron_S]

Yuck.. If we want to talk about a fat lazy snake, there's a good one.. And I have seen some nice lean Ball Pythons. I'm not getting mine a gym membership or a personal trainer but I'm not going to let him be a big fat ball of scales that only knows how to lay in one spot.

You're not going to let it? You're going to somehow devolve it's most basic intuition?

These animals have survived forever because how they are. They stay in one spot because it's less likely to be eaten and it can defend itself better when it finds that really good spot.

[franks]

want to see thin and sexy? I WILL SHOW YOU THIN AND SEXY

Dayummm Girl!
That is thin and sexy. When did you pick that up?

[Aaron_S]

I have to take a break from ball python world SOMETIMES

I guess I'll allow you to do your own thing from time to time :P

[franks]

You're not going to let it? You're going to somehow devolve it's most basic intuition?

These animals have survived forever because how they are. They stay in one spot because it's less likely to be eaten and it can defend itself better when it finds that really good spot.

Yup- Eric, why do you think they are able to go a year without food sometimes. There is a difference between powerfeeding and healthy feeding, but a healthy supported royal will still have a good amount of weight. It just may take a little longer to get there.

[lady_bug87]

Dayummm Girl!
That is thin and sexy. When did you pick that up?

Thanks I picked her up at the end of June

I guess I'll allow you to do your own thing from time to time :P

Gee thanks boss

[Aaron_S]

Thanks I picked her up at the end of June



Gee thanks boss

I'm SO saving that one!!!!

[KORBIN5895]

want to see thin and sexy? I WILL SHOW YOU THIN AND SEXY

That's not a picture of me.

[ErikBush97]

That's not a picture of me.

Thought Korbin was 6'0", and nearly 250 LBS :p

[KORBIN5895]

I'm 6'3" and about 235 right now.

[ErikBush97]

I'm 6'3" and about 235 right now.

Nice, man. Lean or fat? I am 6'0" with a mixture of the both lol

[smy_749]

Nice, man. Lean or fat? I am 6'0" with a mixture of the both lol

You cant be a mixture of fat and skinny, it makes no sense. Its called average....

Like a mixture of tall and short....

[KORBIN5895]

I'm definitely not lean. I'm working on it though. I'm too young to feel this crappy all the time.

[franks]

I'm definitely not lean. I'm working on it though. I'm too young to feel this crappy all the time.

http://rugbydudefitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/P90X_SEO.jpg

[Mikoh4792]

Go on a madcow or starting strength program. Dem gains...

[ErikBush97]

You cant be a mixture of fat and skinny, it makes no sense. Its called average....

Like a mixture of tall and short....

"lean or fat"

Lean. As in lean muscle...

[smy_749]

Just don't eat so many calories....you can do whatever the hell you want on the daily, you can even do nothing at all. Count your calories and for every 3500 you cut out of your diet per week, you lose 1 pound. Shave 500 off your diet per day, thats 3500 a week. Shave 1000 off your day thats 2 pounds per week. Doesn't mean you have to eat less, just don't eat redic foods with a million carbs but still get full.

You can hop up and down 24 hours a day and still be chunky. You need to walk like 50 miles to lose one pound....lol

Abs are made in the kitchen, not in the gym!!

Off topic rant- over.

[smy_749]

"lean or fat"

Lean. As in lean muscle...

Just stop....you said you are a mixture of both lean and fat....

Lean muscle means there isn't much fat on it. It doesn't make any sense any way you slice it man, just stop.


(of a person or animal) thin, esp. healthily so; having no superfluous fat.
"his lean, muscular body"
synonyms: slim, thin, slender, spare, wiry, lanky, skinny; More
antonyms: fat
(of meat) containing little fat.
"lean bacon"

[Mikoh4792]

Just don't eat so many calories....you can do whatever the hell you want on the daily, you can even do nothing at all. Count your calories and for every 3500 you cut out of your diet per week, you lose 1 pound. Shave 500 off your diet per day, thats 3500 a week. Shave 1000 off your day thats 2 pounds per week. Doesn't mean you have to eat less, just don't eat redic foods with a million carbs but still get full.

You can hop up and down 24 hours a day and still be chunky. You need to walk like 50 miles to lose one pound....lol

Abs are made in the kitchen, not in the gym!!

Off topic rant- over.

Right. You can workout all you want, if you take in more calories than you expend, you won't lose weight.

[Mikoh4792]

"lean or fat"

Lean. As in lean muscle...

Sorry bro but you were asking Korbin if he was lean or fat. You however described yourself have having both traits, which is not physically possibly.

[ErikBush97]

Sorry bro but you were asking Korbin if he was lean or fat. You however described yourself have having both traits, which is not physically .

Guess "lean" muscle wasn't what I meant. If someone is overweight (fat), and workout; they gain muscle. Without cardio, they can become toned and still be fat at the same time.

[Mikoh4792]

Guess "lean" muscle wasn't what I meant. If someone is overweight (fat), and workout; they gain muscle. Without cardio, they can become toned and still be fat at the same time.

It doesn't matter if you are fat, skinny, already muscular...etc. You don't gain muscle from just working out. It depends on your diet. Working out puts wear and tear on your muscles. If you don't take in the proper nutrients to recover you won't see muscle growth.

I don't know what you mean by the last statement. How "toned" or "defined" someone is depends on the percentage of bodyfat.

[ErikBush97]

It doesn't matter if you are fat, skinny, a...etc. You don't gain muscle from just working out. It depends on your diet. Working out puts wear and tear on yours. If you don't take in the proper nutrients to recover you won't see muscle growth.

I don't know what you mean by the last statement. How "toned" or "defined" someone is depends on the percentage of bodyfat.

I workout, eat healthy and that's it. There's no more to working out than that. I could watch my cals, do cardio, and thin out but I don't really have a reason to.

[Mikoh4792]

I workout, eat healthy and that's it. There's no more to working out than that. I could watch my cals, do cardio, and thin out but I don't really have a reason to.

Yes but why did you say

If someone is overweight (fat), and workout; they gain muscle. Without cardio, they can become toned and still be fat at the same time.

I'm not attacking you, I just want to clear that misconception and would appreciate it if you would address my response to that post.

[ErikBush97]

Yes but why did you say



I'm not attacking you, I just want to clear that misconception and would appreciate it if you would address my response to that post.

I am saying that you can be muscular and fat all at once.

[ErikBush97]

So in the first picture you can see a fat guy who has an okay amount of muscle.
In the second picture you can see the same guy after he lost weight.
He basically has the same exact amount of muscle the entire time (he did shape his pecs, Delts, and arms out a little bit, though). So basically I'm trying to say you don't have to have low BF % to be toned. You'll be A LOT more toned if you loose weight but it's not necessarily essential.

[Mikoh4792]

He does not have the same amount of muscle. You can clearly see most of his muscle groups have grown.

Yes if you want to define "toned" as being able to see the shape of a muscle that can be applied to anyone that isn't morbidly obese. In that case the majority of the people in the world is toned.

[ErikBush97]

He does not have the same amount of muscle. You can clearly see most of i is muscle groups have grown.

Yes if you want to define "toned" as being able to see the shape of a muscle that can be applied to anyone that isn't morbidly obese. In that case the majority of the people in the world is toned.

Which of his groups grew? I see no difference in his pecs, delts, tris, bis, forearms, calves. It looks like he shaped up his traps a little (if that)

[Mikoh4792]

Which of his groups grew? I see no difference in his pecs, delts, tris, bis, forearms, calves. It looks like he shaped up his traps a little (if that)

His delts, calves, triceps, forearms. Pectoral minor and major is more pronounced, which gives him more cleavage. If you look under his arms you will also see that his lats have grown, making his body seem broader than before.

[ErikBush97]

Remember that fat is like frosting. Whether or not you can see it, there is something under it. If you don't believe that you can have muscle and be fat at the same time, why can I, who appears to be just a fat guy, do about 15-20 pull ups at 250 LBS?

[ErikBush97]

His delts, calves, triceps, forearms. Pectoral minor is more pronounced.

No.. They're just more visible because he lost weight.
I do see a bit of Lat growth as you mentioned, though.

[Mikoh4792]

No.. They're just more visible because he lost weight.
I do see a bit of Lat growth as you mentioned, though.

Sorry but they have grown. It is very clear to see.

[Mikoh4792]

Remember that fat is like frosting. Whether or not you can see it, there is something under it.
This is obvious

If you don't believe that you can have muscle and be fat at the same time, why can I, who appears to be just a fat guy, do about 15-20 pull ups at 250 LBS?

I never said that. Everyone has muscle.

[ErikBush97]

Sorry but they have grown. It is very clear to see.

That's 100% besides the point. If he did grow, it was very slightly. He still had about the same amount, or just less muscle in picture one. All I am saying is whether or not you can understand it; fat guys can have muscle. It's not opinion, it's fact, so Idk why we're even arguing lol

[ErikBush97]

This is obvious



I never said that. Everyone has muscle.

If it's obvious why do you seem to think he gained muscle? It looks more sculpted in the 2 picture because there's no fat masking it.

[Mikoh4792]

That's 100% besides the point. If he did grow, it was very slightly. He still had about the same amount, or just less muscle in picture one. All I am saying is whether or not you can understand it; fat guys can have muscle. It's not opinion, it's fact, so Idk why we're even arguing lol

I never said fat guys can't have muscle. Everyone has muscle. He actually made a drastic improvement in terms of muscle mass.

If it's obvious why do you seem to think he gained muscle? It looks more sculpted in the 2 picture because there's no fat masking it.

I was saying this was an obvious statement. I don't think he gained muscle. I know it just by looking at the picture.

Remember that fat is like frosting. Whether or not you can see it, there is something under it



If that man had just lost fat he would definitely look smaller than in the second picture.

[smy_749]

Im on my phone so I'll make it short. Do I think he gained muscle, no, maybe slightly. You would be suprised what tan skin and low body fat can do. Why do you think bodybuilders tan? It creates better shadows and contours.

Is there benefits to being skinnier and low body fat, absolutely. Greater stamina, your HEALTHIER, lots of cardio is great for your heart, and your core. Unless you want to be in worlds strongest men, fat and strong isnt beneficial and you look fat. I dont think the first pic looks muscular or toned. He looks fat. If your gonna go to the gym, you might as well make it worth your while. People who dont count calories and do cardio is because they are lazy and cant do it. Dieting and counting calories is the hardest part of it ALL. Cardio isnt easy. All the guys like this one, fat and musular work out for 30 seconds, take 5 minutes breaks for whatever, talk with friends, and do another 3 reps. Woopdeedoo. They leave the gym and havent broken a sweat. I used to go every day for about four years, so ive seeen it all. The fat muscular guys are too lazy to work hard and thats why they look that way. Thr only exceptions are the powerlifters. Period.

[smy_749]

Also when people take before and after pics, they always try to look pathetic as possible in thr before to amplify results. Hes pale , not flexing anything, not sucking in his gut, and not pumped like he is in the second one where he prob just finished.