Irian Jaya Carpet Python and Ball Python comparison

[bubs]

Hey everyone! I've been looking into buying a pet snake for the longest time and I'm stuck in between these two. I was hoping I could get a little help.

I know ball pythons are a typical recommended beginner snake and honestly, I thought this was the snake for me until I discovered carpet pythons. I know irian jaya's can get bigger than balls but not by that much.

I'm wondering what snake you personally enjoyed keeping as a pet more, as well as which one required more care? Housing isn't a problem, I just want to make sure that the snake I choose will be worthwhile.

I heard balls can be quite boring after a while and that carpets are usually more active. Any comments would be great.

[franks]

I have both an Irian Jaya, and a bunch of ball pythons. They are very different snakes. For starters, you should know that Irian Jayas are not really bigger than Ball Pythons. Irian Jayas are much more slender and a 5' IJ can be worn like a bracelet. As far as size goes, IJ's are smaller than Ball Pythons. They may get to the same length or even exceed the length of a ball python, but they are smaller snakes in weight and girth.

Here are a few other differences between the two that I have noticed:
Irian Jayas are more active than ball pythons

Irian Jayas display better than ball pythons (they love to climb and will hang out in the open more)

Ball Pythons will "sit still" more so than an IJ. Alot of people want a lap snake. A ball python is more of a lap snake than an IJ.

IJs have better feeding responses than ball pythons, but it can be tougher to switch them to rats

Some IJ's are nippy as hatchlings, most ball pythons are pretty shy or "docile" as babys

I have not kept either species in bad conditions, but I believe that an Irian Jaya would be more forgiving of husbandry mistakes than a ball python would be. They see a "hardier" species, and in the wild are found in fairly varying climates.

Ball Pythons have many different and affordable morphs to choose from, the only natural IJ morph is the granite gene and is very expensive. You can also get an IJ crossed with the Jaguar gene (like mine) but it is not a pure IJ

[bubs]

Oops, I should've been more specific. By bigger I meant longer. Which do you think would be better for a beginner? I'll admit I'm a little bit intimidated by the size of an Irian, since I know they can grow over 5 ft (I'd get a male), but if it's an overall more enjoyable species to keep, I would rather have one.

[Mikoh4792]

I have both carpet pythons and ball pythons

This is just my opinion but I don't really see ball pythons as pets. They just hide all day and don't do much. I do however like handling them and feeding them(My ball pythons have great feeding responses).

My carpets are definitely display snakes. They never hide and are always resting in the canopy of the cage(branches, ledges, plants..etc). My carpets are also very docile but they are a bit more high-strung when it comes to handling. They can freak out if I touch them on the sides and they don't stop moving.

My suggestion would be to go to an expo or reptile shop and see for yourself.


Here are a few pics of my carpets doing what they normally do on a daily basis. They will hang out on the logs under the heat lamp.

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a594/mikoh4792/20130719_081508_zpsa202c004.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a594/mikoh4792/20130719_080951_zpsd25f9fa6.jpg

[franks]

My suggestion would be to go to an expo or reptile shop and see for yourself.

Fantastic Idea. I like it alot.

[sweatshirt]

Welcome bubs. I'm the one who suggested this forum on YA. I wasn't trying to come off as a snob, by the way. On YA there are way too many stupid questions (yours was the first actually intelligent one I've seen in a while) so I sometimes answer kind of rudely on there. Anyways, welcome. xD

[exwizard]

I don't have any Ball Pythons but I know people who do and my roommate breeds them so yeah, I'm exposed to them a lot. I do have a couple of Irian Jayas though and I can tell you based on what I've seen in both. Irian Jayas are more active, are better eaters and are prettier than Balls. (the last point is my opinion of course) Of all the Carpet locales out there, Irian Jayas are the smaller ones and definitely more slender than a Ball. Both Mikoh and franks make great points about both species and describe them both pretty accurately. The only difference in my experience with Irian Jayas is that mine are pretty calm and while still active, don't really "freak out" when touched in the wrong places. I think you will enjoy the Irian Jayas more if you go that way but again, that is my opinion. :)

[Mikoh4792]

The only difference in my experience with Irian Jayas is that mine are pretty calm and while still active, don't really "freak out" when touched in the wrong places. I think you will enjoy the Irian Jayas more if you go that way but again, that is my opinion. :)

Right I should mention not all carpets are that way. I am only speaking about the carpets that I have in particular(which is only two.( One IJ and a jungle). They just seem to be more sensitive(sensitive to touch) than other snakes.

[marvelfreak]

I think what it comes down to is do you like Carpet or Balls. lol
Carpets= manly snake
Balls = girly snake

[smy_749]

I think what it comes down to is do you like Carpet or Balls. lol
Carpets= manly snake
Balls = girly snake

lolllllll haven't heard that one before

[Jack C]

I never see my royal during the day, at night he is only active. Handles and feeds well.

[bubs]

My carpets are also very docile but they are a bit more high-strung when it comes to handling. They can freak out if I touch them on the sides and they don't stop moving.


Are they easy to handle though? I don't mind a snake that's more active but if it's constantly trying to get away that could be an issue. I've handled some royals but never a carpet. I'll go to my local herp shop. Thanks for the help!

The only difference in my experience with Irian Jayas is that mine are pretty calm and while still active, don't really "freak out" when touched in the wrong places.

Thanks a lot, they sound like a great snake to keep and it's nice to hear most are quite calm.

Irian Jayas are much more slender and a 5' IJ can be worn like a bracelet. As far as size goes, IJ's are smaller than Ball Pythons. They may get to the same length or even exceed the length of a ball python, but they are smaller snakes in weight and girth.

This is very helpful. How much larger would they get than 5'? I'd for sure get a male that's pure IJ. The length intimidates me a bit but I realize they aren't as thick.

[Mikoh4792]

Are they easy to handle though? I don't mind a snake that's more active but if it's constantly trying to get away that could be an issue. I've handled some royals but never a carpet. I'll go to my local herp shop. Thanks for the help!

Very easy to handle. When I said that I didn't mean they are constantly trying to get away. I meant they are more alert and aware of what is going on. My carpets "keep me on my toes" more so than my ball pythons.


This is very helpful. How much larger would they get than 5'? I'd for sure get a male that's pure IJ. The length intimidates me a bit but I realize they aren't as thick.

Even a female IJ will not get that big. The average adult size for them is 4-6 feet with females usually growing towards the 5-6 ft range. They slender for their length. A 6 ft carpet python will not be as big as a 6 ft boa constrictor. If you see a 6 ft carpet python curled up in a corner you wouldn't even guess it to be that big.

[h3h]

I think what it comes down to is do you like Carpet or Balls. lol
Carpets= manly snake
Balls = girly snake


Haha, I'm not really into balls either, but this forum has put carpets in my top 5 non-venomous...They are astounding creatures.

- h3

[franks]

This is very helpful. How much larger would they get than 5'? I'd for sure get a male that's pure IJ. The length intimidates me a bit but I realize they aren't as thick.

Not much bigger than five. a 6' pure IJ would be huge! most are between 4 and 5 feet. (keep in mind that if you get a Jaguar gene IJ, than you can end up with a bigger snake. The higher purity % of IJ, the smaller the snake would be in theory. The Jaguar gene is from coastal carpets who get to around 9' and can push towards 11'.)

I am telling you, the length does not make the snake big at all. It is truly hard to conceptualize, but its true. Here is a pic of my girl when she was 4' 1".

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g223/diehardislanders/IMAG0889.jpg (http://s57.photobucket.com/user/diehardislanders/media/IMAG0889.jpg.html)

[franks]

They are extremely easy to handle btw (responding to your other question.) They are much lighter, and stronger than ball pythons, and really kind of handle themselves. A ball python needs to be held in a way, my IJ just climbs all over me. She can wrap around me once and have 3' just dangling around smelling the ground, couch etc. I take her out and walk around when I watch TV, do dishes, or read. She uses me as a jungle gym really. I have corn snakes, a boa, multiple ball pythons, and out of those groups, she is the easiest to handle by far. Always moving, but not "flighty" like a kingsnake or corn would be. I rarely have to "treadmill" her with my hands.

[bubs]

The average adult size for them is 4-6 feet with females usually growing towards the 5-6 ft range.

I think it's just me worrying about it hitting that 6 ft mark. I know males are usually smaller but it's always the "exception" part that freaks me out a bit aha. Your snakes are absolutely stunning by the way.

Not much bigger than five. a 6' pure IJ would be huge! most are between 4 and 5 feet.

Oh she's beautiful. You're right, when I see that picture I don't think she seems too big. It will be my first snake though so I'd get a male, I'm just nervous of getting into something too big if it happens to grow that large! :p

[Mikoh4792]

I think it's just me worrying about it hitting that 6 ft mark. I know males are usually smaller but it's always the "exception" part that freaks me out a bit aha. Your snakes are absolutely stunning by the way.



Oh she's beautiful. You're right, when I see that picture I don't think she seems too big. It will be my first snake though so I'd get a male, I'm just nervous of getting into something too big if it happens to grow that large! :p

Nothing to worry about. Even if it got to 6 ft it wouldn't be overwhelming. This is one of the great things about carpets.

[Terranaut]

Almost 6' male jcp (bigger than ij)
Just get one. You won't regret it.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/20130619_174712_zps6e65fede.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/terranaut0/media/20130619_174712_zps6e65fede.jpg.html)

[bubs]

Nothing to worry about. Even if it got to 6 ft it wouldn't be overwhelming. This is one of the great things about carpets.

Thanks a lot. I'll look into it and see if I can find one local. He might not stay under 5 ft but i'll cross my fingers! :D

[gonesnakee]

reading this thread I thought I had best post to correct the incorrect size info posted repeatedly above.
IJs can & will grow upto 8 ft folks & can have a girth as large as a pop/beer can easily.
This whole myth that they stay tiny small is nothing but straight up BS.
Yes they are the smallest of the Carpets but a properly fed IJ will hit 6-8ft easily depending on the specimen.
Speaking from experience having kept many & bred them as well they are not a skinny 5ft snake, if they are they are either a subadult or have not been fed much.
I blame the "puppymill" "breeders" for passing this BS around the most as they of course bred the crap out of them young & small never giving them the chance to obtain their true size, but hey when using a small rack instead of a proper enclosure one likes to stunt their animals I guess ???
Anyhow you are looking at an animal that will get 5-8ft & a good girth to it, considerably longer & just as thick or thicker than any BP, Mark

edit - for the record any carpet should NEVER see a mouse as prey, they should be started on rats from their first meal on, why start a snake off on prey that is an inappropriate size for it's whole life is beyond me ??? Start them off on pinky rats & you will not have any issuexs switching them later.
Also ANY Aussie Snake kicks arse on a BP, why go the trendy wanker route when you can get a REAL snake! LOL Cheers

[Mikoh4792]

reading this thread I thought I had best post to correct the incorrect size info posted repeatedly above.
IJs can & will grow upto 8 ft folks & can have a girth as large as a pop/beer can easily.
This whole myth that they stay tiny small is nothing but straight up BS.
Yes they are the smallest of the Carpets but a properly fed IJ will hit 6-8ft easily depending on the specimen.
Speaking from experience having kept many & bred them as well they are not a skinny 5ft snake, if they are they are either a subadult or have not been fed much.
I blame the "puppymill" "breeders" for passing this BS around the most as they of course bred the crap out of them young & small never giving them the chance to obtain their true size, but hey when using a small rack instead of a proper enclosure one likes to stunt their animals I guess ???
Anyhow you are looking at an animal that will get 5-8ft & a good girth to it, considerably longer & just as thick or thicker than any BP, Mark

edit - for the record any carpet should NEVER see a mouse as prey, they should be started on rats from their first meal on, why start a snake off on prey that is an inappropriate size for it's whole life is beyond me ??? Start them off on pinky rats & you will not have any issuexs switching them later.
Also ANY Aussie Snake kicks arse on a BP, why go the trendy wanker route when you can get a REAL snake! LOL Cheers

I thought specimens larger than 6 ft were the exception. What do you have to say about Nick Mutton and Justin Julander's book The Complete Carpet Python where it states that Irian Jayas will achieve smaller sizes than the other carpets?(5-6 ft). They do mention that there is a dichotomy in terms of body size between specimens found in various parts of their habitat.

[Donnie]

reading this thread I thought I had best post to correct the incorrect size info posted repeatedly above.
IJs can & will grow upto 8 ft folks & can have a girth as large as a pop/beer can easily.
This whole myth that they stay tiny small is nothing but straight up BS.
Yes they are the smallest of the Carpets but a properly fed IJ will hit 6-8ft easily depending on the specimen.
Speaking from experience having kept many & bred them as well they are not a skinny 5ft snake, if they are they are either a subadult or have not been fed much.
I blame the "puppymill" "breeders" for passing this BS around the most as they of course bred the crap out of them young & small never giving them the chance to obtain their true size, but hey when using a small rack instead of a proper enclosure one likes to stunt their animals I guess ???
Anyhow you are looking at an animal that will get 5-8ft & a good girth to it, considerably longer & just as thick or thicker than any BP, Mark

edit - for the record any carpet should NEVER see a mouse as prey, they should be started on rats from their first meal on, why start a snake off on prey that is an inappropriate size for it's whole life is beyond me ??? Start them off on pinky rats & you will not have any issuexs switching them later.
Also ANY Aussie Snake kicks arse on a BP, why go the trendy wanker route when you can get a REAL snake! LOL Cheers

so eloquently put :D

[gonesnakee]

I thought specimens larger than 6 ft were the exception. What do you have to say about Nick Mutton and Justin Julander's book The Complete Carpet Python where it states that Irian Jayas will achieve smaller sizes than the other carpets?(5-6 ft). They do mention that there is a dichotomy in terms of body size between specimens found in various parts of their habitat.

I would suspect everything in the wild would take much longer to reach larger sizes Vs a captive snake that is offered prey 25-50 times a year in captivity & would definitely think areas were prey is smaller or less frequently found that they would definitely be larger or smaller based on that yep.
I'm talking from personal first hand experience with captive bred & kept specimens over the last 13 years not something I have read in a book that is looking moreso at wild specimens, Mark
P.S. of course as per any animals there are bigger & smaller ones based on individual genetics that are sometimes locality based as well, but folks tend to think they do not reach the size of other Carpets when they most definitely will Cheers!

[Mikoh4792]

I would suspect everything in the wild would take much longer to reach larger sizes Vs a captive snake that is offered prey 25-50 times a year in captivity & would definitely think areas were prey is smaller or less frequently found that they would definitely be larger or smaller based on that yep.
I'm talking from personal first hand experience with captive bred & kept specimens over the last 13 years not something I have read in a book that is looking moreso at wild specimens, Mark
P.S. of course as per any animals there are bigger & smaller ones based on individual genetics that are sometimes locality based as well, but folks tend to think they do not reach the size of other Carpets when they most definitely will Cheers!

Interesting.

I have a pic of my IJ on post #4. Could you just by looking at her, guess whether or not she is a pure IJ or another locality?

It was sold to me as an IJ from LLLreptile but looking at many other pictures I am having second thoughts. From the pictures I have seen my snake seems to look very similar to darwin/northwestern carpet pythons.

[gonesnakee]

Now days its hard to tell with some, ever since the Jaguar hit the scene folks have been crossing pretty much every single subspecies to make different Jags, thus muddying up the gene pool more so than it ever has been. Mark

[shaunyboy]

reading this thread I thought I had best post to correct the incorrect size info posted repeatedly above.
IJs can & will grow upto 8 ft folks & can have a girth as large as a pop/beer can easily.
This whole myth that they stay tiny small is nothing but straight up BS.
Yes they are the smallest of the Carpets but a properly fed IJ will hit 6-8ft easily depending on the specimen.
Speaking from experience having kept many & bred them as well they are not a skinny 5ft snake, if they are they are either a subadult or have not been fed much.
I blame the "puppymill" "breeders" for passing this BS around the most as they of course bred the crap out of them young & small never giving them the chance to obtain their true size, but hey when using a small rack instead of a proper enclosure one likes to stunt their animals I guess ???
Anyhow you are looking at an animal that will get 5-8ft & a good girth to it, considerably longer & just as thick or thicker than any BP, Mark

edit - for the record any carpet should NEVER see a mouse as prey, they should be started on rats from their first meal on, why start a snake off on prey that is an inappropriate size for it's whole life is beyond me ??? Start them off on pinky rats & you will not have any issuexs switching them later.
Also ANY Aussie Snake kicks arse on a BP, why go the trendy wanker route when you can get a REAL snake! LOL Cheers

^^^^^
pretty much covers it

imo Carpets are way more interesting and better looking than bp's

cheers shaun

P.S.good to see you back on here Mark

[franks]

reading this thread I thought I had best post to correct the incorrect size info posted repeatedly above.
IJs can & will grow upto 8 ft folks & can have a girth as large as a pop/beer can easily.
This whole myth that they stay tiny small is nothing but straight up BS.
Yes they are the smallest of the Carpets but a properly fed IJ will hit 6-8ft easily depending on the specimen.
Speaking from experience having kept many & bred them as well they are not a skinny 5ft snake, if they are they are either a subadult or have not been fed much.
I blame the "puppymill" "breeders" for passing this BS around the most as they of course bred the crap out of them young & small never giving them the chance to obtain their true size, but hey when using a small rack instead of a proper enclosure one likes to stunt their animals I guess ???
Anyhow you are looking at an animal that will get 5-8ft & a good girth to it, considerably longer & just as thick or thicker than any BP, Mark


I am not an expert on Carpet Pythons, so I cannot disagree with your statement. I am curious as to why your claim regarding size contradicts statements from some of the leading guys in the field like Nick Mutton, Anthony Capponetta etc. On Nick Mutton's webiste he says that with these snakes "adults rarely exceeding 6' in length." I know Irian Jays can well exceed 6' and sometimes even push 8' especially ones mixed with coastal blood like I mentioned earlier. If you are advocating that this is the norm and not the exception, it would be cool if you could post some data to support this. I am not trying to be argumentative, but I do want to learn, and I definitely want to know if I am spreading information that is not true. Your post contradicts pretty much everything I have read, and the limited first-hand experience I do have with Irian Jayas, and I would like more information.

[gonesnakee]

Keep in mind that some folks will breed the crap right out of them young & small thus never giving them a remote chance of reaching their full potential, thus why they fit in their racks so nicely as well.
Some of these "breeders" do not hesitate to breed females that are only maybe 2 YO & 1500g & yearling males thus never having a remote chance to fully mature.
On that I personally would not breed any female Python at less than 3 YO & preferably 4 YO & definitely not at 1500g closer to triple that.
Mind you I am not a morph breeder with a facility so pumping them out as fast as possible thus stunting all the stock over time is not something that happens here either but it most definitely happens elsewhere & is promoted as well unfortunately.
On that I have had multiple pure IJs both males & females & pretty much every one has hit at least 6ft & has a girth of that of close to a pop can or equal to it & have observed multiple others over the years as well from different bloodlines too.
They all however were given the chance to properly mature before being entered into breeding programs though.
Keep in mind that with the continual lowering of breeding standards due to morph animals folks like to push their own agendas when presenting "facts" & what can be done & what should be done are NOT one in the same.
What has been happening with BPs & the ever plummeting standards is also happening with Carpets thus distorting their true size potentials to make folks think its OK to breed the crap out of them young & small because they are fully mature... NOT!
Cheers Mark

[marvelfreak]

Mark great to see you back on here.:) Hope we'll be see a lot more of you on here.

[franks]

On that I have had multiple pure IJs both males & females & pretty much every one has hit at least 6ft & has a girth of that of close to a pop can or equal to it & have observed multiple others over the years as well from different bloodlines too.
Cheers Mark

How many have you had push past the 6' mark to hit around 8? What you are saying about "puppy mill" style breeding resonates with me. When in the market for carpets, I commonly find full grown coastals in giant rubbermaid tubs. Pretty sad. It is cool that you take your time and invest in your animals and do not see them like a product. I have had many breeders tell me "breeding age" is more about the actual age of the snake than the size. Could you elaborate on that. (perhaps on another thread if this is deemed hijacking).

[gonesnakee]

I think in order for a good healthy breeder both age (maturity) & size are factors.
If the snake is a tiny little specimen that never was a good feeder its size may not be sufficient despite being of age & on the other hand it could be a 1.5 YO that had been powerfed as well.
Slow & steady, give those girls a good four years to grow & mature & give the males at least 2 or more as well, many folks will start breeding morph males as yearlings never giving them a chance to fully mature either.
I personally have had at least 4 female IJs hit into the 8ft range & have had JCPs, CCPs & Bredli all in the 8ft range as well.
You get lots of folks telling you JCPs don't get very big either.
A snake kept in a tiny tub being fed a maintenance diet & getting bred ASAP is never going to reach its full potential be it a BP or a Carpet, thus why you see continually lowered standards in both as folks wnat to get the product out as fast as possible in many cases unfortunately, Mark

[Aaron_S]

Keep in mind that some folks will breed the crap right out of them young & small thus never giving them a remote chance of reaching their full potential, thus why they fit in their racks so nicely as well.
Some of these "breeders" do not hesitate to breed females that are only maybe 2 YO & 1500g & yearling males thus never having a remote chance to fully mature.
On that I personally would not breed any female Python at less than 3 YO & preferably 4 YO & definitely not at 1500g closer to triple that.
Mind you I am not a morph breeder with a facility so pumping them out as fast as possible thus stunting all the stock over time is not something that happens here either but it most definitely happens elsewhere & is promoted as well unfortunately.
On that I have had multiple pure IJs both males & females & pretty much every one has hit at least 6ft & has a girth of that of close to a pop can or equal to it & have observed multiple others over the years as well from different bloodlines too.
They all however were given the chance to properly mature before being entered into breeding programs though.
Keep in mind that with the continual lowering of breeding standards due to morph animals folks like to push their own agendas when presenting "facts" & what can be done & what should be done are NOT one in the same.
What has been happening with BPs & the ever plummeting standards is also happening with Carpets thus distorting their true size potentials to make folks think its OK to breed the crap out of them young & small because they are fully mature... NOT!
Cheers Mark

Mark you really hit the nail on the head with those post. It's rampant throughout the entire industry though.

You see a lot of people pushing their agenda because they make everything seem easy so they can capitalize on the "next big thing".

You've been around a long time too and I'm sure you remember on this very forum when people posted pictures of giant snakes that were giant. 14 foot burm males...16 foot burm females.

I also find a lot of people downplay species that simply aren't as easy as "beginner" species. Such as blood pythons. To these people they push them as "just slightly more humid ball pythons with a fatter girth" and it simply isn't true.

P.S. I am going to pull the hipster card and say I was into ball pythons before the trendy wankers!