I have a qeustion about lighting and soil.

[batmanjosh5000]

Hi, i am in the middle of building my 8x4x4 savannah monitor enclosure and have a few questions. Can i put a ceramic heat emitter in the enclosure? I ask because my house temperature is about 70f all year round and i want to raise the temperature in the enclosure to 75f at night. So i figure a ceramic heat emitter would work for that. But i also feel like they get really hot and if he decides to touch it he could get a nasty burn. So are ceramic heat emitters safe to use or should i raise the temps a different way? Also i am not sure of which soil to be using. Should i use organic or inorganic topsoil? thanks!

[Cmwells90]

From what I know, you'd never want to use one. They're prone to overheating and that can cause burns. Also they don't do much for the ambient air temp, the reptile would have to be ON it to feel much heat, which leads back to the burns.

[infernalis]

The basking lamps are all you need, tried, tested, proven.

Organic, can you dig up the back yard with a shovel and get away with it?

[KORBIN5895]

From what I know, you'd never want to use one. They're prone to overheating and that can cause burns. Also they don't do much for the ambient air temp, the reptile would have to be ON it to feel much heat, which leads back to the burns.

What are you talking about? There is no way the sav would get on it and they are designed to get over 200°f.

The basking lamps are all you need, tried, tested, proven.

Organic, can you dig up the back yard with a shovel and get away with it?

I think he means as a heat source for when the lights are out because his house temps are 70°f.

@op

If I understand you correctly It should work just fine but I'm not sure what it would do to your humidity, if anything.

[Cmwells90]

What are you talking about? There is no way the sav would get on it and they are designed to get over 200°f.

My bad, I was thinking heat rocks.

[smy_749]

Korbin, checking my 60 and 100 watt ceramic bulbs with the temp gun, they get over 400 degrees from what I remember. To the OP, I'm not sure if you've already set it up or not and have run tests to see what night time temps drop to, but a deep substrate and well built enclosure should be able to maintain heat through the night to some degree, especially if your house is a constant 70 degrees. Even better if you have a insulated enclosure and no cracks for heat to escape. You could also consider heating the substrate as well. If you want to use a CHE , thats fine too

[KORBIN5895]

I actually knew they got hotter but I couldn't remember how hot and I don't like exaggerating.

[infernalis]

I think he means as a heat source for when the lights are out because his house temps are 70°f..

Of course he is, a proper cage would take days to cool down a lot.

We had a power outage last winter, my house got down to the upper 40's before the power came back on, my cage only dropped 5 degrees. (it was still over 80 in my cage.)

The large mass of soil acts as a ballast, it holds the heat and gives it up slowly.

AND with burrowing animals, it's fine to just leave the lights on 24/7... since the animals will go underground when they want darkness and privacy.

[KORBIN5895]

Of course he is, a proper cage would take days to cool down a lot.

We had a power outage last winter, my house got down to the upper 40's before the power came back on, my cage only dropped 5 degrees. (it was still over 80 in my cage.)

The large mass of soil acts as a ballast, it holds the heat and gives it up slowly.

AND with burrowing animals, it's fine to just leave the lights on 24/7... since the animals will go underground when they want darkness and privacy.

Ah! I see. Thanks boss.

[batmanjosh5000]

Of course he is, a proper cage would take days to cool down a lot.

We had a power outage last winter, my house got down to the upper 40's before the power came back on, my cage only dropped 5 degrees. (it was still over 80 in my cage.)

The large mass of soil acts as a ballast, it holds the heat and gives it up slowly.

AND with burrowing animals, it's fine to just leave the lights on 24/7... since the animals will go underground when they want darkness and privacy. Good point. My enclosure doesn't have insulation but it's pretty sealed so i don't think much heat would escape when the lights turn off. But would it be better for me to keep the lights on 24/7? Because that would give him the option to bask at night time if he wants to. But at the same time if he doesn't have a set schedule maybe he would sleep more during the daytime which i wouldn't want because id' rather see him more during the day.

The basking lamps are all you need, tried, tested, proven.

Organic, can you dig up the back yard with a shovel and get away with it?
I don't think i have anywhere i can do that... but the top soil at lowes is pretty cheap. Shop Hapi-Gro 40-Pound Top Soil at Lowes.com (http://www.lowes.com/pd_92432-76450-TS40H_4294707957%2B4294713816__?productId=3516520&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=Top%20soil) Would this be good to use?

[Toothless]

I leave one of my basking spots on 24/7 just to keep the temps up during the night. Even with those lights on all night, once the main lights turn off, Toothless goes to bed and doesn't come back out until morning. I think it would be easier just to leave the lights on 24/7, but a CHE would work as well (although you'd probably be running at a higher wattage than the halogens). I think a 24/7 basking spot for nervous ones would be beneficial- growing up my guy was always seen basking at night since he was too nervous to be out during the day.

[infernalis]

I don't think i have anywhere i can do that... but the top soil at lowes is pretty cheap. Shop Hapi-Gro 40-Pound Top Soil at Lowes.com (http://www.lowes.com/pd_92432-76450-TS40H_4294707957%2B4294713816__?productId=3516520&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=Top%20soil) Would this be good to use?

I read this on the bag, Not sure?? why is it in there? sounds bad.

Fly Ash: Valuable Source Of Nutrients; Or Hazardous Waste Masquarading As A Soil Amendment? : TreeHugger (http://www.treehugger.com/corporate-responsibility/fly-ash-valuable-source-of-nutrients-or-hazardous-waste-masquarading-as-a-soil-amendment.html)

Fly ash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_ash)

[batmanjosh5000]

I like that idea i think ill do that.

i have another question, the answer is probably obvious but i just want to make sure... Im planning on using three 50 watt halogen flood lights and want to put them in regular clamp lamps with ought the dome part (It would just be easier for me since then i wouldn't have to install any light sockets). This would work right? i wouldn't have to use ceramic light sockets or anything would i? (just to be clear i decided im not going to use ceramic heat emitters, i am going to use 3 halogen flood lights)

[batmanjosh5000]

I read this on the bag, Not sure?? why is it in there? sounds bad.

Fly Ash: Valuable Source Of Nutrients; Or Hazardous Waste Masquarading As A Soil Amendment? : TreeHugger (http://www.treehugger.com/corporate-responsibility/fly-ash-valuable-source-of-nutrients-or-hazardous-waste-masquarading-as-a-soil-amendment.html)

Fly ash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_ash)
Ya that does sound pretty weird. Is there anywhere that sells just plain old dirt?

[batmanjosh5000]

I had to get something from Lowes tonight and while i was there i took a look at the soil. they had one that looked pretty good. It's organic and says that there's no added chemicals or anything and that it's just plain old dirt. This is what the ingredients said it "mineral soils, dolomitic limestone, and composted bark fines". Does this sound safe to use?

[infernalis]

Those ingredients sound like dirt. Just a note on the use of the word "organic"

People need to be careful, if you want to get technical, Gasoline is organic.. Fossilized hydrocarbons of once living things, carbon based...

That is just one example of a whole host of things that can be called "organic" that may not necessarily jive with what we first think of.

I could legally get away with growing food in a pile of decomposing bodies and call it "organic" and the public would immediately think rainbows and unicorns because we have been conditioned to believe that "organic" means that barefoot hippies in sun dresses grow stuff on unspoiled lands...

Tricky use of common adjectives for marketing purposes has been around forever.

It's still up to us the animal keeper to understand what we are looking at when deciding on these things. Google each ingredient, understand what is in there and it's purpose. ;)

Having a million acres of old forest at my disposal, I just simply dug up the good stuff, fresh forest floor dirt. I guess I take this privilege for grated.

[B_Aller]

op- Don't bother buying dirt in bags at lowes, waste of time and money, go to a landscaping material yard ask for sifted dirt and washed play sand mixed or buy a 1/4 yard of each and mix yourself. Buying dirt in bags is not the way to go.
You will spend way less and get way more at a landscape yard.
I use fly ash in my concrete sculptures to achieve a certain detailed look and increase strength, don't think it would be worth it to add to dirt though as it is basically dust.
Here's some detail I get with fly ash

[batmanjosh5000]

Hahaha ya that's a good point. Organic poison would definitely not be healthy lol! And I think I'll just buy bags of dirt and sand at lowes since I want to move him into the new enclosure fast.


Also I tested the basking lights. The three flood lights together would only get 130f if there really close to the platform. Would I need more lights or can they be really close to the basking platform? Or maybe it will make a difference once I put the dirt in.

[murrindindi]

Hahaha ya that's a good point. Organic poison would definitely not be healthy lol! And I think I'll just buy bags of dirt and sand at lowes since I want to move him into the new enclosure fast.


Also I tested the basking lights. The three flood lights together would only get 130f if there really close to the platform. Would I need more lights or can they be really close to the basking platform? Or maybe it will make a difference once I put the dirt in.


Hi, how close are the halogens to the basking object? You also need to take into consideration the animal`s body will be that much closer to the bulbs/heat.

[batmanjosh5000]

last night i made them 10inch and 3/4 (ten inches and three quarters) above the platform, turned them on, came back 40 minutes later and it read 115f. Would it maybe take longer to fully heat? Or maybe the wood with polyurethane doesn't absorb heat so well?

[murrindindi]

last night i made them 10inch and 3/4 (ten inches and three quarters) above the platform, turned them on, came back 40 minutes later and it read 115f. Would it maybe take longer to fully heat? Or maybe the wood with polyurethane doesn't absorb heat so well?


The polyurethane sealant will not effect the heat absorption/retention, and I personally wouldn`t move the bulbs any closer, maybe swap one of them for a higher wattage (65w)?
Tile/slate do hold the heat longer, you could always try that and see what you get.

[batmanjosh5000]

The polyurethane sealant will not effect the heat absorption/retention, and I personally wouldn`t move the bulbs any closer, maybe swap one of them for a higher wattage (65w)?
Tile/slate do hold the heat longer, you could always try that and see what you get.
That's a good idea, i would probably raise the wattage in the middle one. But i was thing maybe i should have to adjacent rows of lights. Like if i would have a row of three and in front of it have a row of 2

[murrindindi]

That's a good idea, i would probably raise the wattage in the middle one. But i was thing maybe i should have to adjacent rows of lights. Like if i would have a row of three and in front of it have a row of 2


If you have two rows there may be more heat than is needed (ambient air, too), you also have to consider that the more heat the less humidity.
Try one higher wattage in the middle, also a piece of slate/stone, leave them on for a couple of hours and see what the surface temps are, anything over 50c (120f) is fine.

[batmanjosh5000]

If you have two rows there may be more heat than is needed (ambient air, too), you also have to consider that the more heat the less humidity.
Try one higher wattage in the middle, also a piece of slate/stone, leave them on for a couple of hours and see what the surface temps are, anything over 50c (120f) is fine.
O ya that's a good call. So ill give it another try for a couple of hours and if it doesn't raise ill get the higher watt and a piece of stone.

[batmanjosh5000]

op- Don't bother buying dirt in bags at lowes, waste of time and money, go to a landscaping material yard ask for sifted dirt and washed play sand mixed or buy a 1/4 yard of each and mix yourself. Buying dirt in bags is not the way to go.
You will spend way less and get way more at a landscape yard.
I use fly ash in my concrete sculptures to achieve a certain detailed look and increase strength, don't think it would be worth it to add to dirt though as it is basically dust.
Here's some detail I get with fly ash
Actually getting it from a landscaping material yard is a MUCH better idea! i just saw the price difference and the soil at lowes is very over priced. So i think i'll get it from a landscaping yard. But on a website i found they have different types of soil and sand. Which ones should i get?

SOILS
1.Topsoil (screened)
2.Compost
3.Topsoil\Compost Mix

SANDS
1.Mason / Pool Sand
2.Concrete Sand (i have a feeling i shouldn't be getting concrete sand)


and how much of each do you think i would need?

[infernalis]

Screened topsoil... Perfect.

Play sand is best, about 3 dollars a bag. You only need 2 or 3 bags.

[batmanjosh5000]

Screened topsoil... Perfect.

Play sand is best, about 3 dollars a bag. You only need 2 or 3 bags.
Awesome then ill get the screened. but would i be able to just get sand from a beach? because i was thinking that then i could do a 50/50 mix and would be able to save money on soil if i get more sand free

[B_Aller]

Actually getting it from a landscaping material yard is a MUCH better idea! i just saw the price difference and the soil at lowes is very over priced. So i think i'll get it from a landscaping yard. But on a website i found they have different types of soil and sand. Which ones should i get?

SOILS
1.Topsoil (screened)
2.Compost
3.Topsoil\Compost Mix

SANDS
1.Mason / Pool Sand
2.Concrete Sand (i have a feeling i shouldn't be getting concrete sand)


and how much of each do you think i would need?

Cool! Glad you found a material yard close by, I always try and steer people away from bagged dirt.
Like Wayne said, get the screened topsoil.
If you can get beach sand go for it, free is nice plus the whole idea with the sand is to have many different sized grains, this helps with keeping it diggable but still able to hold a burrow, that's why I recommend play sand because it's just the one most likely to have multiple sized grains. Beach sand by nature will have lots of different sizes. Concrete sand is fine, it's just sand that has been sorted by grain size, when using concrete sand you want to use different grits or mix play sand with concrete sand....probably TMI just spent years messing with it, now I have a huge natural source for amazing dirt, I let nature do all the mixing and sorting :)
Best.

[batmanjosh5000]

Cool! Glad you found a material yard close by, I always try and steer people away from bagged dirt.
Like Wayne said, get the screened topsoil.
If you can get beach sand go for it, free is nice plus the whole idea with the sand is to have many different sized grains, this helps with keeping it diggable but still able to hold a burrow, that's why I recommend play sand because it's just the one most likely to have multiple sized grains. Beach sand by nature will have lots of different sizes. Concrete sand is fine, it's just sand that has been sorted by grain size, when using concrete sand you want to use different grits or mix play sand with concrete sand....probably TMI just spent years messing with it, now I have a huge natural source for amazing dirt, I let nature do all the mixing and sorting :)
Best.
That's awesome! i hope it's not illegal to take from the beach... but i geuss ill find out if someone stops me.
But would it be harmful to the monitor if there was like a piece of glass in the sand? I dont think there would be a lot of glass but im sure sometimes people smash glass near sand, or litter their bottle caps in the sand. I could also try to sift that stuff out somehow.

[infernalis]

take an old (wide mesh) window screen, still in it's frame and pass the sand through it.

Play sand is beach sand, it's just washed and cleaned..

[batmanjosh5000]

take an old (wide mesh) window screen, still in it's frame and pass the sand through it.

Play sand is beach sand, it's just washed and cleaned..
Cool that's easy. I don't think i have a old window screen but i can probably get away with an aquarium screen.

[infernalis]

wow, yes... a reptile screen top. Perfect.