Savannah food

[mygabriella]

What kind of feeder fish can I feed my savannah??? I have two pet stores around here. One sells comets and the other sells these skinny grey things.
Also I feed her cray fish, Ive given her shrimp once (she thought those were tasty), worms, mice....
What else can I give her? She likes anything I give her. Shes a piglet.

[mygabriella]

24776

24777

[infernalis]

worms, big juicy night crawlers.

three buck a package at wal mart in the fishing/hunting/camping department.

Littlefoot and Cera pound worms.

They eat baby chickens, baby rabbits, if it fits in their mouths, they will eat it.

[mygabriella]

worms, big juicy night crawlers.

three buck a package at wal mart in the fishing/hunting/camping department.

Littlefoot and Cera pound worms.

They eat baby chickens, baby rabbits, if it fits in their mouths, they will eat it.


She eats night crawlers. Baby chicks :(, shes too small for those and baby rabbits. She takes awhile to take down a big mouse. Just wanted to switch it up for her a bit.

[murrindindi]

Hi, it`s not about the variety, it`s the nutritional value of the diet that matters. Either of those fish sound fine if the animal will take them.
Seafoods should only be offered in moderation because of the high salt content.
I think a good captive diet would be 50% inverts to 50% vertebrates (and if most of that 50% vertebrates are rodents, that`s good, too)!

[fuzzhc]

Like roughly how often a wee could jumbo prawns in shell be offered? Just recently came accross those in my local supermarket

[murrindindi]

Like roughly how often a wee could jumbo prawns in shell be offered? Just recently came accross those in my local supermarket


Hi, I would only offer a few every 2 or 3 weeks, it isn`t that they aren`t nutritious (they are), it`s simply the high salt content. If you do feed them, rinse them thoroughly in clean water first.

[Pirarucu]

Murrindindi, out of curiosity why do you say the salt content is bad for them? I know some monitors will scavenge prey from the beach.. But I can't imagine that the tiny difference in salt levels would be a huge issue. Entire populations of people live off of the sea, after all.

Prawns are often freshwater by the way.

[fuzzhc]

Hi, I would only offer a few every 2 or 3 weeks, it isn`t that they aren`t nutritious (they are), it`s simply the high salt content. If you do feed them, rinse them thoroughly in clean water first.

I usually feed them once a week and washed thoroughly but never thought the salt contemt would have been very high. In saying that whenever I go on holiday my dad will feed my sav for me but he will only go as far as prawns as he doesnt like the thought of seeing anything else. I have noticed that when I come back the monitors belly is huge and jiggly for a couple of weeks after ive got him back on bugs and mice. Any ideas why this could be, maybesomething to do with the salt?

Edit: its not bloated either because ive seen it like that a few times and usuall goes back to normal after doing the toilet lol

[mygabriella]

If variety in diet isn't important. And 50% inverts and 50% mice is a good diet.
Then why did you say that nightcrawlers and mice were a horrible diet for a varanid? Just curious, not trying to be rude. It's just your one of the ones that told me to feed that diet because she was fat. Then you told me that's a horrible diet. Then now your saying 50/50 is good without a variety.

[mygabriella]

What is a prawn btw?

[B_Aller]

Hi, I would only offer a few every 2 or 3 weeks, it isn`t that they aren`t nutritious (they are), it`s simply the high salt content. If you do feed them, rinse them thoroughly in clean water first.

I disagree with this advice.
Firstly Prawn are freshwater, shrimp are saltwater so if you are offering prawns there should not be an issue with salt.
I've been feeding a mostly shellfish diet to all of my varanids (save for the tree monitors, they refuse) for well over 15 years. Never had an issue with salt, parasites, bad fecals, slow growth or lack of breeding success.
Besides, thawing shellfish requires rinsing so that also should not be an issue.
The main thing to keep in mind is that you must be feeding whole bodied shellfish, not just tails.
Ben

[B_Aller]

What is a prawn btw?

Prawn is a freshwater "shrimp"

[infernalis]

The main thing to keep in mind is that you must be feeding whole bodied shellfish, not just tails.
Ben

With that in mind, I only feed my lizards about a pound a month (half pound each) of these, since the only "clean" ones I can get have the heads removed.

Since their diet also includes generous amounts of chicks, rodents and night crawlers, I see little need in giving them much more (in terms of expensive headless prawns)

[murrindindi]

Murrindindi, out of curiosity why do you say the salt content is bad for them? I know some monitors will scavenge prey from the beach.. But I can't imagine that the tiny difference in salt levels would be a huge issue. Entire populations of people live off of the sea, after all.

Prawns are often freshwater by the way.


Hi, I have not said they are bad for Varanids in general, I was advised by Bernd Eidenmueller not to offer sea food to this species too often (V. exanthematicus) which is what`s being discussed in this thread, I believe he has enough knowledge and experience to know better than I, so I accepted his advise! ;)
You rightly say "monitors" may scavenge prey on the beach, not the above species, at least as far as I know!?

[murrindindi]

I disagree with this advice.
Firstly Prawn are freshwater, shrimp are saltwater so if you are offering prawns there should not be an issue with salt.
I've been feeding a mostly shellfish diet to all of my varanids (save for the tree monitors, they refuse) for well over 15 years. Never had an issue with salt, parasites, bad fecals, slow growth or lack of breeding success.
Besides, thawing shellfish requires rinsing so that also should not be an issue.
The main thing to keep in mind is that you must be feeding whole bodied shellfish, not just tails.
Ben

Hi, I was referring only to the Savannah monitor (V. exanthematicus). I too have fed seafood to a variety of Varanid species without any health problems whatsoever!

[murrindindi]

If variety in diet isn't important. And 50% inverts and 50% mice is a good diet.
Then why did you say that nightcrawlers and mice were a horrible diet for a varanid? Just curious, not trying to be rude. It's just your one of the ones that told me to feed that diet because she was fat. Then you told me that's a horrible diet. Then now your saying 50/50 is good without a variety.



Hi, sorry, I don`t know how to bring my previous reply to you other than this way...?

Re: Mice size
Hi, why are you only feeding earthworms with a small mouse every two weeks or so, that is an awful diet for any Varanid!?
To answer your question, yes, absolutely do try a full grown mouse (f/t or f/k), Varanids can swallow prey larger than most lizards without any problems (just like snakes).
Can you show a few photos of the monitor? Thanks!


As you see, I was asking why you only fed a small mouse every two weeks and just worms the rest of the time, that`s why I described it as and awful diet ("awful" may have been too strong a word)!
I then said that there doesn`t need to be a large variety of prey so much as they are nutritious (e.g just because someone feeds 50 different items doesn`t necessarily mean they are more nutritious than just a few items)...
A diet of 50% vertebrates (even if the majority of those were rodents) and 50% inverts is in my opinion, good! (I hope that`s clear)! ;)

[murrindindi]

Prawn is a freshwater "shrimp"


There are saltwater prawns, too.

[Pirarucu]

I disagree with this advice.
Firstly Prawn are freshwater, shrimp are saltwater so if you are offering prawns there should not be an issue with salt.
I've been feeding a mostly shellfish diet to all of my varanids (save for the tree monitors, they refuse) for well over 15 years. Never had an issue with salt, parasites, bad fecals, slow growth or lack of breeding success.
Besides, thawing shellfish requires rinsing so that also should not be an issue.
The main thing to keep in mind is that you must be feeding whole bodied shellfish, not just tails.
Ben
There are saltwater prawns too, as well as freshwater shrimp.
I see no reason not to offer them regularly, they are very nutritious and the salt will not have any relevant effect. For one thing when you buy them they are usually rinsed already, but even if they weren't the amount of residual salt on their exoskeleton would be negligible, as would the amount of salt in them.

[murrindindi]

There are saltwater prawns too, as well as freshwater shrimp.
I see no reason not to offer them regularly, they are very nutritious and the salt will not have any relevant effect. For one thing when you buy them they are usually rinsed already, but even if they weren't the amount of residual salt on their exoskeleton would be negligible, as would the amount of salt in them.


Hi, maybe you can contact Bernd Eidenmueller and inform him his advise is unreliable, he`s on the board of "Biawak" and his email address appears on the front of that journal? (I`m NOT being sarcastic, I`m asking a serious question). ;)
Would you also feed saltwater fish if the Savannah monitor would take it?

[infernalis]

Hi, maybe you can contact Bernd Eidenmueller and inform him his advise is unreliable, he`s on the board of "Biawak" and his email address appears on the front of that journal? (I`m NOT being sarcastic, I`m asking a serious question). ;)
Would you also feed saltwater fish if the Savannah monitor would take it?

I will jump in for a second, Saltwater fish? well if someone gave me a few ladyfish or small mackerel, but virtually all the saltwater fish at the store is fillet, so why bother as it's incomplete.

Not to mention, Tilapia, Salmon, haddock, cod, and virtually all frozen fillet is sprayed with sodium tripolyphosphate to keep it pretty looking in the store, and I simply don't trust food laced in detergents.

[murrindindi]

Hi Wayne, I believe Salmon and Tilapia are freshwater fish?
And who suggested feeding frozen fillets (not me)!? ;)

[B_Aller]

There are saltwater prawns, too.
Well I'm no shrimp expert, but where I live those are the names the seafood wholesalers use, prawn for fresh, shrimp for sea.
I'm not sure about exanthematicus but several species have salt excreting glands. I'd say 50/50 insect/ whole animal is great for these guys, doubt you would see any problems feeding a large portion of shellfish, really though, as long as it's whole bodied...it works.
Best.

[murrindindi]

Well I'm no shrimp expert, but where I live those are the names the seafood wholesalers use, prawn for fresh, shrimp for sea.
I'm not sure about exanthematicus but several species have salt excreting glands. I'd say 50/50 insect/ whole animal is great for these guys, doubt you would see any problems feeding a large portion of shellfish, really though, as long as it's whole bodied...it works.
Best.

I`m no shrimp expert either (snap!), but I think Bernd E. would have enough experience with exathematicus to be better informed than I am, so I accepted the advise to only feed this species seafood in moderation.
I actually asked him the question on behalf of a friend who worked at a zoo in the states that had been keeping a Sav in quite appalling conditions, she was trying to get the "powers that be" make some changes (that included in the diet).
Yes, a number of Varanid species have salt secreting glands, but I`m not sure if V. exanthematicus is one of them?
In Oz we have "yabbies'" which are freshwater crayfish, I used to feed those to my monitors regularly, (V. varius, gouldii and mertensi), but never tried the saltwater type.

[infernalis]

I feed my Savannah monitors pretty much the same diet a lot of keepers give their animals. Buckets of chicks, mice, roaches, worms, prawns/shrimp, small trout, etc.. and they suck it down with vigor.

[fuzzhc]

Tbh now that its been brought up im not even sure if the jumbos I tried were prawns or shrimp ill have to check next time. I think ill cut them down dramatically as for now though until I can figure out why prawns/shrimp are giving him a massive jiggling belly

[mygabriella]

Hi Wayne, I believe Salmon and Tilapia are freshwater fish?
And who suggested feeding frozen fillets (not me)!? ;)

Ok thanks! I have since then started feeding her large f/t mice more often. And I still feed her night crawlers and I'm getting some crayfish.
Btw salmon are from the ocean. They swim up rivers to spawn and then go back to the ocean. Real salmon that is. We also have freshwater salmon but its a different kind and doesn't get as large. If you buy a steak of salmon at the store it will be saltwater. Tilapia is freshwater. Yay something I know about! Haha

[nepoez]

Frozen mice in a hot summer day is a good way to cool down your monitor. It's like eating ice cream!

[infernalis]

Frozen mice in a hot summer day is a good way to cool down your monitor. It's like eating ice cream!

Absolutely the worst thing to ever do to any exothermic animal... It will rip their core temperature down so fast they can go into SHOCK!!!!!!!!

This will ultimately cause damage and kill a monitor lizard. (snake, gecko, frog, newt, whatever)

Stop with any thoughts of cooling down, these critters are from the darn equator region, it's HOT there, they thrive in it,, They NEED it.

Unless you live in a volcano, there is no need to "cool off" your monitor lizards.

Why would wild specimens commonly bask on asphalt roadways and airport tarmacs where the heat waves distort the air, if they didn't like it? why would Goanna thrive in the red heart where the dead men lie? These lizards are TROPICAL animals, it's considered cold out when it "drops" down into the 80's....

[murrindindi]

Btw salmon are from the ocean. They swim up rivers to spawn and then go back to the ocean. Real salmon that is. We also have freshwater salmon but its a different kind and doesn't get as large. If you buy a steak of salmon at the store it will be saltwater. Tilapia is freshwater. Yay something I know about! Haha


Now you`re just showing off..... ;)

[murrindindi]

Frozen mice in a hot summer day is a good way to cool down your monitor. It's like eating ice cream!

Hi, Wayne`s answer is clear enough, I just want to ask how many times you`ve done this with your monitor (if at all)?

[mygabriella]

Ya definitely not going to give her an unthawed mouse. :-/
Even after she just almost bit my finger off

[mygabriella]

Hi, Wayne`s answer is clear enough, I just want to ask how many times you`ve done this with your monitor (if at all)?

Hopefully none :-/

[nepoez]

Hi, Wayne`s answer is clear enough, I just want to ask how many times you`ve done this with your monitor (if at all)?

I'm glad Wayne replied lol. I posted it as a joking assuming everyone would realize the sarcasm, but apparently not. But now in retrospect I realize I could've unintentionally lead some inexperienced owners to take what I said as advise rather than a joke. haha. my bad :(

[Pirarucu]

Hi, maybe you can contact Bernd Eidenmueller and inform him his advise is unreliable, he`s on the board of "Biawak" and his email address appears on the front of that journal? (I`m NOT being sarcastic, I`m asking a serious question). ;)
Would you also feed saltwater fish if the Savannah monitor would take it?I would certainly like to discuss the matter, I'm not out to say everyone's wrong, just that I doubt a small portion of salt would have any noticeable effect. A sav might get as much extra salt when accidentally ingesting a more saline soil than average.. It just seems to me that you are saying they should not be fed these foods because it isn't natural, even though other monitors eat them in the wild. If we are using this logic, shouldn't we also be advocating feeding Savannah Monitors almost entirely invertebrates?

By the way, smelt are one of the most common small frozen feeder fishes, fed to a wide variety of animals, from reptiles to freshwater fish to birds. And wouldn't you know it, they're saltwater fish.

[murrindindi]

I would certainly like to discuss the matter, I'm not out to say everyone's wrong, just that I doubt a small portion of salt would have any noticeable effect. A sav might get as much extra salt when accidentally ingesting a more saline soil than average.. It just seems to me that you are saying they should not be fed these foods because it isn't natural, even though other monitors eat them in the wild. If we are using this logic, shouldn't we also be advocating feeding Savannah Monitors almost entirely invertebrates?

By the way, smelt are one of the most common small frozen feeder fishes, fed to a wide variety of animals, from reptiles to freshwater fish to birds. And wouldn't you know it, they're saltwater fish.



Hi again, why are you saying that I`ve stated seafood should not be fed to Varanids in general when I specifically referred to Varanus exathematicus (neither did I say it should never be fed)?
"And by the way", what has feeding smelt to a wide variety of animals including fish and birds got to do with it?
If "it seems to you" I`m saying they shouldn`t have these foods on a regular basis because they aren`t natural, you`d be wrong again, can you please quote me stating any such thing?
You say "other species eat them in the wild", I KNOW that, and have not at any time advised against offering it to other species!?
The advise I was offered was to feed SEA FOODS only sparingly/occasionally/not too often to the SAVANNAH MONITOR (Varanus exanthematicus) in captivity, I took the advise seriously (maybe I should have questioned further), you are free to do so with Bernd Eidenmueller, the source of the advise (maybe he`s changed his mind since)!? ;)

[Pirarucu]

Hi again, why are you saying that I`ve stated seafood should not be fed to Varanids in general when I specifically referred to Varanus exathematicus (neither did I say it should never be fed)?
"And by the way", what has feeding smelt to a wide variety of animals including fish and birds got to do with it?
If "it seems to you" I`m saying they shouldn`t have these foods on a regular basis because they aren`t natural, you`d be wrong again, can you please quote me stating any such thing?
You say "other species eat them in the wild", I KNOW that, and have not at any time advised against offering it to other species!?
The advise I was offered was to feed SEA FOODS only sparingly/occasionally/not too often to the SAVANNAH MONITOR (Varanus exanthematicus) in captivity, I took the advise seriously (maybe I should have questioned further), you are free to do so with Bernd Eidenmueller, the source of the advise (maybe he`s changed his mind since)!? ;)I never quoted you as saying seafood should never be fed to any varanid.
Feeding smelt (saltwater fish) has no noticeable effect on freshwater fish... Do you think it would have more of an impact on a Savannah Monitor than a freshwater species of fish?
Hi, I have not said they are bad for Varanids in general, I was advised by Bernd Eidenmueller not to offer sea food to this species too often (V. exanthematicus) which is what`s being discussed in this thread, I believe he has enough knowledge and experience to know better than I, so I accepted his advise! ;)
You rightly say "monitors" may scavenge prey on the beach, not the above species, at least as far as I know!?
Hi, I was referring only to the Savannah monitor (V. exanthematicus). I too have fed seafood to a variety of Varanid species without any health problems whatsoever!Why only the Savannah Monitor?

You are saying they are fine for other varanids but you advise against feeding Savs in particular a diet slightly higher in salt. You correctly pointed out that while other species will scavenge off the beach, Savannah Monitors do not, the implication being that saltwater species should not be fed often because it is not natural. By extending that logic to other parts of a Savannah Monitor's diet, it would be concluded that vertebrates should also be fed very sparingly.

However, when looking at rodents, we now see that a Savannah Monitor's system works largely the same as other monitors when provided with proper conditions, and they can be fed on a diet of largely rodents. Why should this not apply when looking at the relatively small amount of extra salt in seafood? Why should their systems work differently from other monitors? Perhaps the only reason they don't eat seafood in the wild is that they live on the Savannah, not on the beach? I simply find it hard to believe that a pinch of extra salt would be a bad thing for Savannahs in particular when it clearly isn't bad for other monitors and when there is no evidence for it being detrimental to their health, only the assumption that since they do not regularly consume seafood in the wild, it must be bad for them.

[murrindindi]

You`ve asked some great questions, so put them to Bernd!
Again you tell me I`ve said something I haven`t said : "saltwater species should not be fed often because it is not natural" .

Where have I said not to feed seafoods very regularly because it`s not natural? When you say they can be fed a diet of largely rodents, I take it that means they are the most important (largest %) item?
I personally would advise a captive diet of 50% inverts to 50% vertebrates (even if the latter were mostly rodents), that does NOT make them the most important item.
I totally agree with Ben Aller that feeding freshwater shellfish on a regular basis would be a healthy addition to the captive diet of the Savannah monitor.
There are so many types of nutritious food items these days, not to offer seafoods very regularly is surely not that big of a deal?

[Pirarucu]

I have not had time to email him yet. It would help knowing what exactly his words were, can you post the quote?

As I said, it was implied by your previous posts that the opinion was formed because they don't eat them in the wild. I did not say largest percentage, just that a fair portion of their diet can be rodents. I would agree with 50/50, and while that doesn't make them the most important item, wouldn't you agree that is still a large portion of the diet? It's certainly more than occasional.
I agree wholly that not offering seafoods as often would not be a big deal, I just think that offering them often would not be a big deal either.

[infernalis]

There are so many types of nutritious food items these days, not to offer seafoods very regularly is surely not that big of a deal?

Exactly, there is no excuse for not having a variety available.