Checking out the forums/new old guy

[B_Aller]

Hello sSnakess forum,
Just joined this forum as it was recommended by some fellow herpers so I thought I'd check it out.
I'm a long time herp enthusiast and keeper and make my living designing and fabricating animal enclosures for zoo's all over the country. I've also had a few articles published on varanid husbandry.
I've been keeping and breeding reptiles for over 20 years now, mostly with an emphasis on varanids.
I work mostly with S.E Asian species and currently have V. dumerilii, V. becarri, and V. olivaceous
I hatched out my first monitors in 1999 and have pretty much had babies hatching every year since. Currently have some F5 dumerilii in the incubator.
I'm also a big time field herping junkie and get out to see reptiles in nature whenever I can, I usually do 2-3 herp trips a year and get out to the Mojave every year in May to chase wildflowers and reps.
Most of my time is spent working though and I'm in a different zoo nearly every month so maybe I'll get a chance to meet up with forum members at their local zoo. Right now I'm working mostly on behavioral enrichment products for non human primates and will be fabricating exhibits for white handed gibbons, squirrel monkeys, aardvarks, fruit bats, wolfs guenons desert torts and more this year.
Look forward to interesting conversations here.
Thanks.
Ben Aller

[infernalis]

sSnakeSs.com - Rules (http://www.ssnakess.com/index.php?page=rules)

http://www.varanid.us/mat.jpg

[sweatshirt]

Welcome! Lots of varanid lovers here :)

[Mark Taylor]

Hi and welcome I can't wait for pics.

[Amadeus]

Welcome. Very interesting profession.

[B_Aller]

Thanks for the welcome, what pics are you interested in?
I should probably also mention that I am the owner/curator of the largest collection of varanid papers ever assembled, I have everything written about varanids since the 1700's, thousands of articles and just about every book that even mentions them. This collection was complied by Mark Bayless and was left to me when he died. Unfortunately I have not been able to fully re-organize this collection after moving it when Mark passed, but I do spend 2-3 hours a week working on organizing all of the data for eventual availability. I am currently working with Bob Mendyk to get more of the articles available through his fine organization.
A few forum questions, How do I add a signature? What is a "trackback"?
Thanks.
Ben

[smy_749]

Does anyone read what this guy wrote? You have a V.olivaceous !!!!! PICSSS

Oh and welcome

[Lankyrob]

Welcome to the jungle!

[infernalis]

A few forum questions, How do I add a signature? What is a "trackback"?
Thanks.
Ben

Signatures can be added with your user control panel, or you may ask forum staff to help with this.

A trackback means someone has linked to your post or blog on another site. We constantly receive them from the reptile report who features our forum threads often.

Ben, it's a real pleasure to see you posting here.

It's incredible to know that Mark's awesome archives are still alive and well. Even more incredible that you and Robert are organizing it all so that it will be available and not forgotten.

For the younger / newer varanid fans.......

A beautiful eulogy can be read here in the first issue of Biawak.

http://varanidae.org/Vol1_No1.pdf

[Charis]

Hello and welcome!

[marvelfreak]

24534

Those are some cute babies.

[jarich]

Hey Ben, nice to see you here.

[B_Aller]

Thanks again, what a welcoming bunch, very nice, some of you I know, nice to "see" you again.
I'm hoping I got the customizing bit right, I always suck at that.
Here's a few pics of the olivaceous, taken a week or two ago, there is of course a long sorted story behind the grays, but for the record I did not solicit or buy this species, the animals were given to me in a rescue type scenario.
Ben

[smy_749]

You have more than one??? What do you feed these guys and what species would you relate them too with regards to behavior / demeanor? Does anyone else in the U.S. have these?

[franks]

You have more than one??? What do you feed these guys and what species would you relate them too with regards to behavior / demeanor? Does anyone else in the U.S. have these?

Yes, these questions: lol We love monitors here and will gladly read whatever you want to take the time to write regarding yours.
Welcome to the forum!!

[RandyRhoads]

Hello sSnakess forum,
Just joined this forum as it was recommended by some fellow herpers so I thought I'd check it out.
I'm a long time herp enthusiast and keeper and make my living designing and fabricating animal enclosures for zoo's all over the country. I've also had a few articles published on varanid husbandry.
I've been keeping and breeding reptiles for over 20 years now, mostly with an emphasis on varanids.
I work mostly with S.E Asian species and currently have V. dumerilii, V. becarri, and V. olivaceous
I hatched out my first monitors in 1999 and have pretty much had babies hatching every year since. Currently have some F5 dumerilii in the incubator.
I'm also a big time field herping junkie and get out to see reptiles in nature whenever I can, I usually do 2-3 herp trips a year and get out to the Mojave every year in May to chase wildflowers and reps.
Most of my time is spent working though and I'm in a different zoo nearly every month so maybe I'll get a chance to meet up with forum members at their local zoo. Right now I'm working mostly on behavioral enrichment products for non human primates and will be fabricating exhibits for white handed gibbons, squirrel monkeys, aardvarks, fruit bats, wolfs guenons desert torts and more this year.
Look forward to interesting conversations here.
Thanks.
Ben Aller
Please take me out in the Mojave. Prove to me snakes exist out there.

[Donnie]

Hello and welcome

[B_Aller]

You have more than one??? What do you feed these guys and what species would you relate them too with regards to behavior / demeanor? Does anyone else in the U.S. have these?

In 2006 I was given two males although they were thought to be a pair. Both were in rough shape suffering from bacterial dermatitis, there is a long story there, but one recovered and thrived with minor treatment, one never fully recovered after years of extensive treatment and was put down just a few months ago.
I feed these guys like almost all my monitors, mostly shellfish, but they also get snails, rodents, and quail eggs as well as frequent offerings of grapes, blueberries, cherries and occasionally figs.
They are an interesting species to work with, they can be shy but do acclimate well to keeper presence, mine will lunge out of the cage mach 10 to get food but does not appreciate handling and acts very different when strangers are present. This is a large species, my remaining male is pushing 6ft TL so keeping is similar to other large bodied Forest monitors.

LA has 4, Oklahoma City has 2.2 Moody gardens in Galveston Tx has one, I think that's it in the US, I'll have to ask Ruston Hardegen at Dallas next time I speak with him, he's the Varanus Taxon manager for the U.S SSP and the head of the AZA steering comity for Varanus.

[B_Aller]

Please take me out in the Mojave. Prove to me snakes exist out there.
You've got to be joking right? That place is absolutely jumping with snakes, never struck out there ever.
here's a few from this year, sorry don't have time for more.
Best.

[RandyRhoads]

$&@"$$!!!!

I've trekked hundreds of miles at various times of the year and so far on the last trip I finally found a gopher. Woo. Before that the closest I came was finding a C. Scutulatis shed. I've done this at various times of the year for 2 years. What part of the mohave are you going in?

[infernalis]

YA6W7pQ8G0Q

v0LfvtKcQ6U

[Snakesanne]

I'm new, too, but welcome to the forum! You sure have a lot more to contribute than I - wow, what an addition. All I have is an empty aquarium... and possibly an albino tangerine Honduran milk snake lurking somewhere in my house, which, if accidentally found by my husband instead of me, will cause him to suffer immediate cardiac arrest.

[B_Aller]

$&@"$$!!!!

I've trekked hundreds of miles at various times of the year and so far on the last trip I finally found a gopher. Woo. Before that the closest I came was finding a C. Scutulatis shed. I've done this at various times of the year for 2 years. What part of the mohave are you going in?

Woa, I'm totally blown away, I've never come up short out there. This year it even rained on us but we still found quite a few critters. Funny tho, I've only ever found D.O.R gophers out there but they are beautiful.
We go to the Eastern Mojave, Baker, Kelso area. You are at least guaranteed to see sidewinders out there, true junk snake of the Mojave.
We have a solid group of adventurers that go, we have reptiles freaks, bug guys, mammal researchers, birders and botanists that all go so we have a fairly good base of knowledge to start from. Plus we are usually led by John Emberton of (E.B.V fame) he is hands down the best field herper I have ever seen, couple years ago I watched him jump from a moving vehicle to grab a leopard lizard, dude is amazing (I am biased though as I count John as a close friend).
A few more pics, too lazy to label sorry.

[RandyRhoads]

Woa, . You are at least guaranteed to see sidewinders out there, true junk snake of the Mojave.

Now i'm fuming haha. That is the snake i've wanted to encounter the most....:pissedoff::pissedoff::pissedoff:





:pissedoff:




!!!

:pissedoff:


I'm normally at least 100 miles east of you in Fort Mohave/ Kingman area, if that makes a difference...

[B_Aller]

Wayne, Those are some really old videos! I forgot about them. I made those for Daniel Bennett as I was having trouble attaching them to emails. Those two you posted are of the male I had to put down, he would recover for a while then go downhill, long story. I think there are some vids of them eating grapes on that channel too, been a while since I put any vids up.
another pic

[franks]

Thanks for posting those pics for us. Beautiful monitor.

[Amadeus]

Wayne, Those are some really old videos! I forgot about them. I made those for Daniel Bennett as I was having trouble attaching them to emails. Those two you posted are of the male I had to put down, he would recover for a while then go downhill, long story. I think there are some vids of them eating grapes on that channel too, been a while since I put any vids up.
another pic

Ha ha that pic is great. I am really loving these lizards...

[Pirarucu]

Welcome aboard, glad to see you here and can't wait for more pictures of the monitors. I'd love to hear the whole story behind the olivaceus too.

[infernalis]

Wayne, Those are some really old videos! I forgot about them. I made those for Daniel Bennett as I was having trouble attaching them to emails.

Grapes... (I subscribed to your channel some time ago, while discussing your animals with Daniel.)

U4yeG67st8E

Quail eggs..

9El3gzOvy14

[B_Aller]

Now i'm fuming haha. That is the snake i've wanted to encounter the most..
I'm normally at least 100 miles east of you in Fort Mohave/ Kingman area, if that makes a difference...

I've never herped that far east in the Mojave, but you probably have gilas there and a mess of snakes. I feel lucky to have come up in a time when the herp clubs were going strong, I got to hang out with a lot of old timers and learn from their experience. I got a great education in thinking like a reptile and reading the landscape to help hone your searching. Timing is everything though and it always seems to me that when conditions are right all the snakes come out, so I guess just keep trying, road cruise till your eyes bug out and I'm sure you'll find a handful of species out there.
Here's one of my favorite species from the Mojave.

[B_Aller]

(I subscribed to your channel some time ago, while discussing your animals with Daniel.)

Sorry I haven't posted more vids there, never really intended to put up too many.
I would like to make clear my opinion that olivaceous has no business in private hands and the support of the illegal trade of this species should be frowned upon by the varanid community.I don't want it to seem like they are an easy captive or one that people should want to own.They are highly susceptible to infection and a minor problem can quickly turn fatal.
I spent tens of thousands of dollars on housing and veterinary care for these rescued specimens only to have one of them fail miserably even with the best support.
This species does not tolerate the stresses of captivity well and any little change can result in serious compromising of the immune system, simply put, they don't like to be moved or messed with and stress can and does lead to fatal infections in this species.
Sorry for the downer, just don't want to come off like I'm promoting the keeping of olivaceous in the private sector.
Here's a pic of my dums.

[infernalis]

Sorry I haven't posted more vids there, never really intended to put up too many.
I would like to make clear my opinion that olivaceous has no business in private hands and the support of the illegal trade of this species should be frowned upon by the varanid community.I don't want it to seem like they are an easy captive or one that people should want to own.They are highly susceptible to infection and a minor problem can quickly turn fatal.
I spent tens of thousands of dollars on housing and veterinary care for these rescued specimens only to have one of them fail miserably even with the best support.
This species does not tolerate the stresses of captivity well and any little change can result in serious compromising of the immune system, simply put, they don't like to be moved or messed with and stress can and does lead to fatal infections in this species.
Sorry for the downer, just don't want to come off like I'm promoting the keeping of olivaceous in the private sector.
Here's a pic of my dums.

I simply agree with this, and I find it troubling when I see people from the islands dragging them around on ropes.

Honestly, I don't think varanids should be so common in the pet trade at all.

Most people are not in any position to house them correctly...

[B_Aller]

Honestly, I don't think varanids should be so common in the pet trade at all.
Most people are not in any position to house them correctly...

We are in complete agreement there Wayne and I think it would be an interesting conversation to have on this site. I don't think albigularis, niloticus, salvadorii, giganteus, varius or salvator should be kept by 99.9% of the public either.
I wouldn't keep niloticus or salvadorii, I know I don't have the proper resources,and I have years of experience, a large reptile facility, a huge fabrication shop and I build zoo exhibits!! should tell you something.
It should be like "?! what!! you keep niloticus! Damn!! that's crazy!!" not every noob with $25 burning a hole in their pocket buying one. Plus Monitors should be 10-20 times more expensive than they are, $2,000. USD for a nile would be about right in my opinion....sorry...tangent!
Ben

[Amadeus]

We are in complete agreement there Wayne and I think it would be an interesting conversation to have on this site. I don't think albigularis, niloticus, salvadorii, giganteus, varius or salvator should be kept by 99.9% of the public either.
I wouldn't keep niloticus or salvadorii, I know I don't have the proper resources,and I have years of experience, a large reptile facility, a huge fabrication shop and I build zoo exhibits!! should tell you something.
It should be like "?! what!! you keep niloticus! Damn!! that's crazy!!" not every noob with $25 burning a hole in their pocket buying one. Plus Monitors should be 10-20 times more expensive than they are, $2,000. USD for a nile would be about right in my opinion....sorry...tangent!
Ben They are 2 for 20 here lol.

[infernalis]

We are in complete agreement there Wayne and I think it would be an interesting conversation to have on this site. I don't think albigularis, niloticus, salvadorii, giganteus, varius or salvator should be kept by 99.9% of the public either.
I wouldn't keep niloticus or salvadorii, I know I don't have the proper resources,and I have years of experience, a large reptile facility, a huge fabrication shop and I build zoo exhibits!! should tell you something.
It should be like "?! what!! you keep niloticus! Damn!! that's crazy!!" not every noob with $25 burning a hole in their pocket buying one. Plus Monitors should be 10-20 times more expensive than they are, $2,000. USD for a nile would be about right in my opinion....sorry...tangent!
Ben

It's your thread Ben, you can take it any direction you would like.:D

A big problem with the "masses" is the misconceptions that a monitor makes a good "pet". Fueled by countless youtube videos of lethargic animals, Disney airing Jessie with "Mr. Kipling" the under metabolized water monitor (David K. has seen this lizard in person, it's kept sub optimal) who is the star attraction & photos all over the internet of people with "tame" lizards sitting on laps & walking on leashes.

When I try to tell them that their lizard should be disemboweling their cat rather than snuggling with it, I get told off like I am the one with a problem.

[Pirarucu]

Definitely in agreement here. Very few people have the ability or the knowledge necessary to keep the larger varanids the way they deserve to be kept. Not to say that no one can keep them right, but it's a very small number. I for one would love to keep niloticus or salvadorii, but not if I couldn't provide them with cages thirty feet long or bigger..
The captive trade in all honesty makes me sick. How can you keep an animal in a cage not much longer than it and think that it's even close to suitable, nevermind ideal? And then their keepers have the gall to say that they are living a better life than in the wild..
The answer is simply that we need regulations on the number that can be imported. If only ten animals could be imported each year, you would see a lot more people keeping them properly..

[B_Aller]

A big problem with the "masses" is the misconceptions that a monitor makes a good "pet". Fueled by countless youtube videos of lethargic animals, Disney airing Jessie with "Mr. Kipling" the under metabolized water monitor (David K. has seen this lizard in person, it's kept sub optimal) who is the star attraction & photos all over the internet of people with "tame" lizards sitting on laps & walking on leashes.

When I try to tell them that their lizard should be disemboweling their cat rather than snuggling with it, I get told off like I am the one with a problem.

My personal opinion after keeping reptiles for over 20 years is that no reptile is a "pet" or should be considered one. I think it is important for those who are interested to be able to care for, observe and learn from reptiles in captivity, but not all species should be available to everyone. I would like to see a permitting system set up in the states similar to Aus.
I know I wouldn't be as passionate and interested in conservation and the natural world if I hadn't put an alligator lizard in a jar when I was 7 and I hate to see stories of kids getting in trouble for keeping tadpoles or what have you, so I do think it's important to retain the ability for the public to keep reptiles in their homes, but croc monitors! Niles? Cobras?
I support a ban on importation of all reptiles and an implementation of a strict permit system, problem is...who would be in charge? Who would make the rules? Could be dangerous. So I think the resposible thing for keepers like us to do is to work hard to discourage most from keeping large, dangerous or endangered species. We have to make it really "not cool" to own these for nearly all keepers. at some point soon a complete ban on owning reptiles will happen unless we are diligent at setting up a viable system to keep large or dangerous species out of the hands of noobies.
I think we as a group need to really try to change the perception that monitors are pets and that they should be available to all keepers, they aren't and they shouldn't be.

[infernalis]

In full agreement Ben.

As long as chain stores and pet shops have 30 dollar lizards & incorrect care sheets, these animals will continue to suffer in large numbers.

[smy_749]

I have to say I agree. When you think real hard about it, even the bans on reptiles wouldn't be so bad as long as you can acquire a permit to keep them. Those who are too lazy to provide proper husbandry and research / pay $$ for proper care will be the same people who are too lazy to go get the required permits.

[B_Aller]

Very few people have the ability or the knowledge necessary to keep the larger varanids the way they deserve to be kept. Not to say that no one can keep them right, but it's a very small number. I for one would love to keep niloticus or salvadorii, but not if I couldn't provide them with cages thirty feet long or bigger..
The captive trade in all honesty makes me sick. How can you keep an animal in a cage not much longer than it and think that it's even close to suitable, nevermind ideal? And then their keepers have the gall to say that they are living a better life than in the wild..
The answer is simply that we need regulations on the number that can be imported. If only ten animals could be imported each year, you would see a lot more people keeping them properly..

Great post.
I'd say a minimum of 16 x 20ft enclosure for one nile is close to humane, larger for salvadorii, who can realistically provide this? Not many. and that's minimum, why, why, why would you get an animal that you can only provide the minimum space for! How is that cool or fun?
The whole twice as long 1/2 the length deal for cage sizes is completely sick and wrong, that small of an enclosure is cruel and unusual punishment for an intelligent species like varanus. For ANYONE who says their captive monitor is better off than their wild counterparts I'd suggest looking at a healthy wild adult. When a healthy wild specimen is compared to a captive specimen, the wild ones always look, act and feel 100 X better than the captives...why is that? I always direct people to take another look at the wild salvators pictured in the Giant reptiles of Kalimantan book ( pages 250-292) tell me you've seen a captive with muscle tone like those pictured. Supposedly the captives have less pressures and stresses, yet they generally look like hell, fat, lethargic, undermatabolized sacks of crap, and life expectancy is lower for captives than well established wild monitors.....strange right? untill you look at the conditions most are kept in.
Again, I support the ban of imported reptiles, look what it did for birds, look how the aquarium hobby has changed and developed new ways to breed stock that can no longer be imported, then look at the THOUSANDS of reptiles killed every year by uneducated keepers.
When was the last time you saw an adult rudicollis? Seriously? 10,000 imported ever year....where are the adults......ever seen a 5 year old rudi? how about a 10 year old?
This needs to stop and it's our responsibility to at least be a part of the solution.
B

[B_Aller]

Surprised no one called me on my horrible math above. that should be 100 to 200 times more expensive. 10 to 20 would only make a nile $250-$500....still way too cheap in my opinion. I'd like to see a minimum of $1,000. USD for all imported animals, would at least get people to respect them a bit more and possibly get people to realize the realistic cost of housing/feeding these animals.
When most buy a lizard for $25 they'll balk at spending $2,000. on caging, though that's about right.

[infernalis]

You would love my Boscs Ben.

The two I keep are lean, fast and very alert. Heck Cera scares me with that penetrating stare, That one bites. :D

[B_Aller]

You would love my Boscs Ben.

The two I keep are lean, fast and very alert. Heck Cera scares me with that penetrating stare, That one bites. :D

I've seen a few of your vids Wayne, I know you're doing great with them, you aren't the type of keeper I'm concerned with, you really seem to get it and are obviously working hard. My only suggestion to you would be to get a few more animals. You have two males right? Why not get a group going? You seem to have the resources.
Daniel Bennett once said to me " you aren't really working with a species unless you have at least a half dozen"
Would love to see someone keeping a nice group of exanthematicus, I think we could learn a lot. Ever seen the sungazer exhibit at the Fort worth zoo?

[infernalis]

A nice member here has a confirmed female that she is holding for me while I get another cage built.

At this time, I am just going to put up another 8x4x4 in the reptile room, but when I get my big check I have been waiting for, I am ordering a load of cement and pouring a large paddock in my basement.

I want to watch them from a hidden camera when they have some real space to move around.

Of course when breeding occurs, I will certainly keep a baby to raise up.

In a few more years, my last teen will be out of the house, and we can start planning those long tropical field trips.;)

[infernalis]

Ever seen the sungazer exhibit at the Fort worth zoo?

NO.

African Savannah @ Fort Worth Zoo (http://www.fortworthzoo.org/plan-a-visit/exhibits/exhibit-areas/african-savannah/)

closest I could find??

[B_Aller]

NO.

African Savannah @ Fort Worth Zoo (http://www.fortworthzoo.org/plan-a-visit/exhibits/exhibit-areas/african-savannah/)

closest I could find??

Reason I mentioned it is that they did a great exhibit for sungazers (Cordylus giganteus) that was a split level African savannah exhibit that had a huge layer of natural soil,planted with grass that allowed natural burrows as well as a fabricated underground "lair". Although this exhibit was designed with both display and breeding as a goal, it functioned quite nicely, if I remember correctly they were one of the first to breed this species in captivity. I always thought it would be a good place to start for a exanthematicus set up. I'll see if I can scan some of my old pics.

[infernalis]

Reason I mentioned it is that they did a great exhibit for sungazers (Cordylus giganteus) that was a split level African savannah exhibit that had a huge layer of natural soil,planted with grass that allowed natural burrows as well as a fabricated underground "lair". Although this exhibit was designed with both display and breeding as a goal, it functioned quite nicely, if I remember correctly they were one of the first to breed this species in captivity. I always thought it would be a good place to start for a exanthematicus set up. I'll see if I can scan some of my old pics.

That would be awesome.

One of the issues I have is I need some tropical seed. The intense heat inside my enclosure combined with less than optimal grow light exposure always results in dead grass.

My lights are already too low to the ground now.

They use the basking lamps to play tether ball and the other day the florescent tube was on the ground, indicating that one of them was up on the fixture.

[Amadeus]

They use the basking lamps to play tether ball and the other day the florescent tube was on the ground, indicating that one of them was up on the fixture.
I don't know why but that made me crack up. lol

[infernalis]

I don't know why but that made me crack up. lol

It makes me happy to know they get "bored" and get into trouble.

Animals with this level of intelligence do not belong sitting idle.

Just my opinion.

[Amadeus]

It makes me happy to know they get "bored" and get into trouble.

Animals with this level of intelligence do not belong sitting idle.

Just my opinion.

I agree with you. I can't wait to get started on my ackie cage in a few weeks.

I would love to see my future monitor ripping apart my whole setup as long as they don't get hurt =]