Which snakes do you think should be bred in captivity more?

[Lychee]

For the purpose of meeting the demand without harming the ecosystem, which snakes do you think need to be bred more often?

For example, I've heard that too many Ball Pythons are taken from the wild in Africa. At the same time, I see a lot of ball pythons for sale. So is it still necessary for more people to start breeding them (as in, more than the ones that already do)? If someone were to become a breeder purely for this purpose, which snakes would you recommend?

[smy_749]

For the purpose of meeting the demand without harming the ecosystem, which snakes do you think need to be bred more often?

For example, I've heard that too many Ball Pythons are taken from the wild in Africa. At the same time, I see a lot of ball pythons for sale. So is it still necessary for more people to start breeding them (as in, more than the ones that already do)? If someone were to become a breeder purely for this purpose, which snakes would you recommend?


Green trees, emeralds and amazons

[Amadeus]

For the purpose of meeting the demand without harming the ecosystem, which snakes do you think need to be bred more often?

For example, I've heard that too many Ball Pythons are taken from the wild in Africa. At the same time, I see a lot of ball pythons for sale. So is it still necessary for more people to start breeding them (as in, more than the ones that already do)? If someone were to become a breeder purely for this purpose, which snakes would you recommend?

There are huge amounts of balls being captive bred.

Dumeril's should be bred more and if all goes well next season I should have quite a few little dums =]

I need to find a female when I get some cashola

[slowhite03]

Scarlet kingsnakes, I want one so badly but I can't find any

[franks]

Hog island boas. They are extinct in their native environment.

[babyboa97]

Tiger rat snakes

[smy_749]

Hog island boas. They are extinct in their native environment.

Well than I guess we don't have to worry about them taking any more wild caught specimens :P


I doubt the animals we captive breed in the hobby will make there way back do natural habitat and be reintroduced. We need more captive breeding of species BEFORE they go extinct.

[Pirarucu]

Quite simply, the ones living in threatened habitats and currently in trouble. Even if we do damage wild populations, the reality is that unfortunately there will not be a "wild" for these species to live in for much longer. We need to put everything we've got into establishing sustainable breeding populations in captivity, or we will not see these species again.

[Mikoh4792]

I'd like to see more of the uncommon dwarf boas come up.

[Aaron_S]

Quite simply, the ones living in threatened habitats and currently in trouble. Even if we do damage wild populations, the reality is that unfortunately there will not be a "wild" for these species to live in for much longer. We need to put everything we've got into establishing sustainable breeding populations in captivity, or we will not see these species again.

You're 100% correct.

I agree with the above. I don't want to derail too much here but I'd also like to the locales to be kept as pure as possible. Less crossing of them.


Everyone who's just saying what they wish to be seen more should just stop. There's a reason why they aren't bred more often like balls, corns and BCI. It's because 1. People can't deal with the animals 2. People don't have the space 3. People don't want to pay for them 4. People just don't put the effort into things that are more delicate on the scale of the common stuff. It needs to be hardy to make the "pet" trade. Unfortunately, not all species are.

[Lychee]

There are huge amounts of balls being captive bred.

Dumeril's should be bred more and if all goes well next season I should have quite a few little dums =]

I need to find a female when I get some cashola

Good luck! :D I actually considered getting a Dumeril a while back, but I tend to be less accepting of snakes that aren't Ball Pythons. Guess I got the coward gene. :bouncy:

[Lychee]

Quite simply, the ones living in threatened habitats and currently in trouble. Even if we do damage wild populations, the reality is that unfortunately there will not be a "wild" for these species to live in for much longer. We need to put everything we've got into establishing sustainable breeding populations in captivity, or we will not see these species again.

You make a great point. :O I actually didn't think of this, but I suppose it would be kind of futile to try to keep an animal in a place where there won't be room for it in the near future... That being said, I imagine that the list of snakes facing this predicament is extensive. :no:

[BryanB]

I plan on breeding my BCL pair in a year or two because you don't see them often. However it is because you can't get them from the wild and I feel they make great pets. They have amazing colors, personality, they stay kinda small at 6.5 feet max, easy setup and they just rock so there

[Amadeus]

I read somewhere that there is still a very small population of Hogg Isle BCI on the island. I'll see if I can track it down.


On Madagascar where dums are native it is common practice for the aborigines to kill snakes because of their religious beliefs and subsequently this has greatly reduced the number of wild Dumeril's boas. I think that if an organization of some kind could breed dums with the intent on releasing them into their native habitat then the population could be arisen. Of course, this wouldn't work unless the locals were educated on the benefits of having these creatures around. So lets breed some ****ing dums!

[Lychee]

Google “The Hog Island Boa: squeezed to the brink of exctinction”. I can't post the link for some reason O_o

[red ink]

For the purpose of meeting the demand without harming the ecosystem, which snakes do you think need to be bred more often?

For example, I've heard that too many Ball Pythons are taken from the wild in Africa. At the same time, I see a lot of ball pythons for sale. So is it still necessary for more people to start breeding them (as in, more than the ones that already do)? If someone were to become a breeder purely for this purpose, which snakes would you recommend?

What purpose.. I'm a bit unclear on it?

[Aaron_S]

What purpose.. I'm a bit unclear on it?

I think he's trying to say "What species should someone breed that no one else really does so I do something cutting edge and new and corner the market".

There's a reason all these species aren't bred commonly...it isn't because no one wants to it's because people suck at actual care and patience. For whatever reason, this hobby has a really high turnover rate.

[Dave Kelley]

I think he's trying to say "What species should someone breed that no one else really does so I do something cutting edge and new and corner the market".


Hehe, ya beat me. ;)

[Starbuck]

some of these more threatened species, such as the hogg island boa, may be going the way of the axolotl. Axies are native to just a few lakes in mexico, both of which have been rendered pretty uninhabitable due to pollution etc. However, because of their usefulness in biomedical research/embryology, there is a booming captive population. The pet trade was secondary.

[bigsnakelove]

bare with me on this please.

i think puerto rican boas should be bred more in captivity for the main reason of prolonging the species as they are rare nowa days in the wild.

[StudentoReptile]

For terms of conservation, of course, any species that is threatened in its native ecosystem (either directly or indirectly) should have more effort put forth to captive propagation.

In terms of the "pet hobby," one should consider how 'easy" the animal is to keep, its rate of reproduction, and its demand. That said, there are a ton of species that fit the first two criteria well enough, but because there's not 100+ different morphs (i.e. $$$) in it, people aren't interested in working with those species. Its a shame really, because there is so much to choose from besides ball pythons, corn snakes, leopard geckos and bearded dragons.

[bigsnakelove]

For terms of conservation, of course, any species that is threatened in its native ecosystem (either directly or indirectly) should have more effort put forth to captive propagation.

In terms of the "pet hobby," one should consider how 'easy" the animal is to keep, its rate of reproduction, and its demand. That said, there are a ton of species that fit the first two criteria well enough, but because there's not 100+ different morphs (i.e. $$$) in it, people aren't interested in working with those species. Its a shame really, because there is so much to choose from besides ball pythons, corn snakes, leopard geckos and bearded dragons.

agreed :) pal

[Amadeus]

For terms of conservation, of course, any species that is threatened in its native ecosystem (either directly or indirectly) should have more effort put forth to captive propagation.

In terms of the "pet hobby," one should consider how 'easy" the animal is to keep, its rate of reproduction, and its demand. That said, there are a ton of species that fit the first two criteria well enough, but because there's not 100+ different morphs (i.e. $$$) in it, people aren't interested in working with those species. Its a shame really, because there is so much to choose from besides ball pythons, corn snakes, leopard geckos and bearded dragons.

I agree 100%

[Aaron_S]

For terms of conservation, of course, any species that is threatened in its native ecosystem (either directly or indirectly) should have more effort put forth to captive propagation.

In terms of the "pet hobby," one should consider how 'easy" the animal is to keep, its rate of reproduction, and its demand. That said, there are a ton of species that fit the first two criteria well enough, but because there's not 100+ different morphs (i.e. $$$) in it, people aren't interested in working with those species. Its a shame really, because there is so much to choose from besides ball pythons, corn snakes, leopard geckos and bearded dragons.

I'd only argue that there may be a handful of other species that are solid choices but there usually is something, one or two things that keep the species from being loved by the masses.

Not all tend to be as hardy as the ones you mentioned. Some are a tad more delicate towards heat or humidity errors. Some are just nippy and usually in my opinion it's that and the size factor.

Carpets do make good captives but can be nippy and the size can easily be a turn off compared to the popular ones. There's a reason they were popular long before colours.

[smy_749]

I'd only argue that there may be a handful of other species that are solid choices but there usually is something, one or two things that keep the species from being loved by the masses.

Not all tend to be as hardy as the ones you mentioned. Some are a tad more delicate towards heat or humidity errors. Some are just nippy and usually in my opinion it's that and the size factor.

Carpets do make good captives but can be nippy and the size can easily be a turn off compared to the popular ones. There's a reason they were popular long before colours.

Childrens/stimsons could be on the same level as BP's with regards to ease of care and hardiness. Never kept any so can't say how nippy they are, but they are def manageable sizes as well. If a few color morphs start showing up, I think the market for these will pick up a bit.

[Terranaut]

Snakes I would like to see more of just because I like them and they are hard to come by. Nothing to do with conservation just pure greed on my part.
Black head pyyhons
Boelens python
Eastern indigos

Those are my top 3.

[Aaron_S]

Snakes I would like to see more of just because I like them and they are hard to come by. Nothing to do with conservation just pure greed on my part.
Black head pyyhons
Boelens python
Eastern indigos

Those are my top 3.

All of them are not as easy to breed as everyone thinks.

Boelens I believe actually have a difficult time just surviving in captivity. I haven't done much research in years but I have kept an eye on them for years.

Still nice to see them though. No complaints there.

[Aaron_S]

Childrens/stimsons could be on the same level as BP's with regards to ease of care and hardiness. Never kept any so can't say how nippy they are, but they are def manageable sizes as well. If a few color morphs start showing up, I think the market for these will pick up a bit.

Children's/spotted pythons do OKAY. Can be nippy as babies.

Stimson's seem easy but the problem is hatchlings. Really small so sometimes they have issues getting going.

It's not just the species care as an adult. It's the getting them to breed, hatching eggs, then rearing the young. It isn't as easy as everyone makes it out to be.

Oh and despite everyone always saying they want to see more of these species, my 10 baby spotted pythons sat for months upon months at "market value" and people just kept backing out or I never got interest.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but when you enter the business side of the hobby you'll see a completely different way everyone acts. Number one complaint about local shows it's that there's no variety yet the same people won't pony up the cash for the variety or do it themselves.

[leper65]

Russian Ratsnakes
Dominican Red Mountain Boas

Dwarf Boas/Pythons
Drymacharons
Japanese Ratsnakes

[smy_749]

Children's/spotted pythons do OKAY. Can be nippy as babies.

Stimson's seem easy but the problem is hatchlings. Really small so sometimes they have issues getting going.

It's not just the species care as an adult. It's the getting them to breed, hatching eggs, then rearing the young. It isn't as easy as everyone makes it out to be.

Oh and despite everyone always saying they want to see more of these species, my 10 baby spotted pythons sat for months upon months at "market value" and people just kept backing out or I never got interest.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but when you enter the business side of the hobby you'll see a completely different way everyone acts. Number one complaint about local shows it's that there's no variety yet the same people won't pony up the cash for the variety or do it themselves.



I pony up the cash! When I have it....

I agree though, the reason that theres no variety, is because we made it that way. The people at shows who do bring variety, don't sell much of it from what I've noticed/ people I've talked with. People don't like change/ delving into things they aren't familiar with, and thats a big reason IMO. I feel like with the interesting/high end species, a lot of the sales / trades occur between hobbyists working with other high end / not often seen species, as opposed to selling to the general public.

[Terranaut]

All of them are not as easy to breed as everyone thinks.

Boelens I believe actually have a difficult time just surviving in captivity. I haven't done much research in years but I have kept an eye on them for years.

Still nice to see them though. No complaints there.

The 3 I mentioned are my favorites I probably will never own.
Boelens are number one. Wow.

[red ink]

So are we trying to be a conservationist or are we trying to corner a market...

There are very few species that fall into that would tick both boxes... most of them beyond the level of expertise of "regular" keepers.

[Aaron_S]

So are we trying to be a conservationist or are we trying to corner a market...

There are very few species that fall into that would tick both boxes... most of them beyond the level of expertise of "regular" keepers.

I think on this forum it should be about the market considering most people are hobbyist and are not really set for conservation. Most hobbyist don't have the patience to raise or acquire animals or if they are available, pony up the cash for the rare.

People don't seem to realize not every species can breed at 2 years like corns/balls etc.

[red ink]

About the market is easy... fork out the $$$$ for morphs or rare locales and it's sorted.

[BryanB]

If I thought it was possible to raise and get the ok to release an endangered or even extinct into it's native habitat, I would see that as an amazing opportunity.

[smy_749]

About the market is easy... fork out the $$$$ for morphs or rare locales and it's sorted.

Do you mean to tell me I can't purchase snakes for 100 dollars and get filthy rich in a year? I was sure it was that easy.....hmm

[franks]

Do you mean to tell me I can't purchase snakes for 100 dollars and get filthy rich in a year? I was sure it was that easy.....hmm

I am pretty sure Warren Buffett made his first million with only two female ball pythons and a kingsnake...

If there were an opportunity to breed a species of snakes for conservation I would be all in, even if it were at my expense.

[red ink]

Breed rattlers... they get decimated by the red neck round up. Prime species right there.

[smy_749]

Breed rattlers... they get decimated by the red neck round up. Prime species right there.

This is off topic, does australia have rednecks?

[red ink]

This is off topic, does australia have rednecks?

Yeah we call them bogans or yobs...

[Dave Kelley]

All of them are not as easy to breed as everyone thinks.

Boelens I believe actually have a difficult time just surviving in captivity. I haven't done much research in years but I have kept an eye on them for years.

Still nice to see them though. No complaints there.

From what I understand, aside from imported Adults, Boelen's thrive quite well in captivity. The problem is not survival, rather reproduction. No one is having success finding the trigger for their reproduction...even those making regular trips to Papua are continuing to struggle with success. Failing to thrive for this species is an old myth that continues to hang around. Plenty of people are keeping these animals alive with very little difference in care than a carpet python or scrub python might need.

As for Black Heads, as fellow member Derek Roddy will tell you, their reproductive failure is due to an increase in unnecessary fat consumption in the form of captive rats. They are reptile consumers in the wild, so to be eating large volumes of obese/breeder age rodents, we are cutting their life spans short, as well as compromising their reproductive systems. There is a direct tie between obesity and failure to develop follicles, so for a blackhead that shouldn't be getting any more fat than would appear on a bearded dragon or elapid on a regular basis, it's safe to say most of the reproductive issues we see with them are more on the basis of pushing them to breed before they are ready, (ie. feeding them more rats than they should to "get them to size") than actually trying to keep/breed them properly (ie. on a low fat diet). He knows way more than I, but thats the general summary.

[jarich]

This is off topic, does australia have rednecks?

Hahahaha, ya, they call them Australians :D (just teasin ya red ink, mate. I loved my time living there)

Dave, what you wrote about obesity and reproductive success is very interesting. Do you have any articles about that? Not disputing it at all, merely would like to read up on it as its not something I was aware of.

I actually was just reading an interesting report on the importation of the major species of snakes for the USA. With the exception of BPs, there are as many, if not more, of all the common species reproduced within the country than imported. That has been the case since at least 2008, as the study didnt show statistics before that. The green anaconda was the odd one out, where still significantly more of those are being imported than bred (although this may not be the case anymore with the new laws).

[Dave Kelley]

Hahahaha, ya, they call them Australians :D (just teasin ya red ink, mate. I loved my time living there)

Dave, what you wrote about obesity and reproductive success is very interesting. Do you have any articles about that? Not disputing it at all, merely would like to read up on it as its not something I was aware of.


Are you speaking of Blackheads, or just the overall tie between obesity, and failure to reproduce? The tie between failure of follicular development and ovulation to obesity is detailed in the book, The Reproductive Husbandry of Boas and Pythons
by Richard A. Ross, M.D., M.P.H. Ross notes that there have been reports of females whom have ovulation "halted" when maintained at larger than healthy sizes. He also proposes that the larger the female is to a more average weight, the less likely she will produce (Ross 1990, p. 32). However, for this to be a problem for our captive herps, it would need to be SUBSTANTIAL amounts of excess weight, as most overfeed their animals and continue to reproduce them without fault. My thinking is that the larger the animal is from a healthy weight, the more likely that internal systems are beginning to shut down, ceasing to act as they should. Since the female would be in improper health at this point, she would most likely fail to reproduce.

As for Blackheads, most of what was said is what Derek Roddy has taught the herp community over the years. He's one of the few people to actually reproduce them successfully year after year, and it's only after he began supplementing their diet with smaller fat portions...instead of a large rat, maybe give them a mouse, a small rat, birds, etc. His reasoning for this is that blackheads are hunting and eating mostly reptiles in the wild (I think I've heard that wild Blackheads are eating 85-90% of their diet in reptiles in wild Australia). He's on here quite often, and he's done several interviews with Reptile Radio, and MoreliaPythons Radio, so I'll toss the links up so you can listen. In just about every one, he details the importance of low fat diets for BHPs, along with his observations to their health and reproduction after the improved diet.

For busy people that like the more advanced look on herpetology/herpetoculture all while being able to download it to your iPod and continue your daily routine, I highly recommend listening to these shows.

Derek Roddy talks Aspidities and Morelia 01/08 by Moreliapythonradio | Blog Talk Radio (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/moreliapythonradio/2013/01/09/derek-roddy-talks-aspidities-and-morelia)
Derek Roddy talks Black headed pythons and Womas 02/18 by Moreliapythonradio | Blog Talk Radio (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/moreliapythonradio/2012/02/19/derek-roddy-talks-black-headed-pythons-and-womas)
Black Heads with Derek Roddy 02/08 by Larry X BT | Blog Talk Radio (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptileradio/2009/02/08/black-heads-with-derek-roddy)
Australia Pythons with Derek Roddy 05/24 by Larry X BT | Blog Talk Radio (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptileradio/2009/05/24/to-be-annouced)

[Will0W783]

I'm going to say that some of the arboreal viperids need to be bred more. Small Atheris (bush vipers) make excellent captives and are generally quite easy for relatively green hot-keepers to work with, but they are almost all imported. They have a habit of killing each other and the young are cannibalistic, but my captive-bred hybrid is one of the coolest snakes I've ever owned.

White-lipped vipers, mangrove vipers, Pope's vipers, big-eyed vipers, Cameron highlands vipers, temple vipers...these are all stunning creatures that make beautiful display animals and rewarding captives, but very few people have tried, and succeeded, at breeding them.

[KBHicks2012]

I would say the white lipped pythons should be bred more in captivity, but my understanding is that there has not been much success in the attempts that have been made, which why most found are captive

[smy_749]

I would say the white lipped pythons should be bred more in captivity, but my understanding is that there has not been much success in the attempts that have been made, which why most found are captive

I talked with Derek Roddy and Tom Keogan (Derek pointed me in his direction) and thats not true actually. The problem is trying to breed wild caughts, but actually if you invest in some captive breed D'alberts, breeding is relatively the same and straight forward like most others.

[jarich]

Are you speaking of Blackheads, or just the overall tie between obesity, and failure to reproduce? The tie between failure of follicular development and ovulation to obesity is detailed in the book, The Reproductive Husbandry of Boas and Pythons
by Richard A. Ross, M.D., M.P.H. Ross notes that there have been reports of females whom have ovulation "halted" when maintained at larger than healthy sizes. He also proposes that the larger the female is to a more average weight, the less likely she will produce (Ross 1990, p. 32). However, for this to be a problem for our captive herps, it would need to be SUBSTANTIAL amounts of excess weight, as most overfeed their animals and continue to reproduce them without fault. My thinking is that the larger the animal is from a healthy weight, the more likely that internal systems are beginning to shut down, ceasing to act as they should. Since the female would be in improper health at this point, she would most likely fail to reproduce.

As for Blackheads, most of what was said is what Derek Roddy has taught the herp community over the years. He's one of the few people to actually reproduce them successfully year after year, and it's only after he began supplementing their diet with smaller fat portions...instead of a large rat, maybe give them a mouse, a small rat, birds, etc. His reasoning for this is that blackheads are hunting and eating mostly reptiles in the wild (I think I've heard that wild Blackheads are eating 85-90% of their diet in reptiles in wild Australia). He's on here quite often, and he's done several interviews with Reptile Radio, and MoreliaPythons Radio, so I'll toss the links up so you can listen. In just about every one, he details the importance of low fat diets for BHPs, along with his observations to their health and reproduction after the improved diet.

For busy people that like the more advanced look on herpetology/herpetoculture all while being able to download it to your iPod and continue your daily routine, I highly recommend listening to these shows.

Derek Roddy talks Aspidities and Morelia 01/08 by Moreliapythonradio | Blog Talk Radio (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/moreliapythonradio/2013/01/09/derek-roddy-talks-aspidities-and-morelia)
Derek Roddy talks Black headed pythons and Womas 02/18 by Moreliapythonradio | Blog Talk Radio (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/moreliapythonradio/2012/02/19/derek-roddy-talks-black-headed-pythons-and-womas)
Black Heads with Derek Roddy 02/08 by Larry X BT | Blog Talk Radio (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptileradio/2009/02/08/black-heads-with-derek-roddy)
Australia Pythons with Derek Roddy 05/24 by Larry X BT | Blog Talk Radio (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptileradio/2009/05/24/to-be-annouced)

Thanks Dave. My question was in reference to obesity causing a failure to reproduce in general, rather than with blackheads specifically. But thanks for answering both questions anyway!

[Aaron_S]

I talked with Derek Roddy and Tom Keogan (Derek pointed me in his direction) and thats not true actually. The problem is trying to breed wild caughts, but actually if you invest in some captive breed D'alberts, breeding is relatively the same and straight forward like most others.

Do you know how many people who breed the "odd" species say that? All of them.

White lips aren't commonly bred is because they are from the liasis group of snakes. Pissy devils. I've mentioned before, most people just don't have the dedication to put up with these kind of species.

Those that do are rewarded. A lot of people say "I'm going to be different" then lose interest when they realize they can't "tame" them and sell them.

I don't believe breeding is too difficult of the species. I've heard they need lots of cooling but I haven't done much research into it.

[Dave Kelley]

Aaron, White Lips have actually been moved from Liasis to Leiopython now. Actually until I searched it, I thought it was comprised of only two species, but it appears there are 6. Never knew! Sorry to go off topic ya'll.

[Aaron_S]

Aaron, White Lips have actually been moved from Liasis to Leiopython now. Actually until I searched it, I thought it was comprised of only two species, but it appears there are 6. Never knew! Sorry to go off topic ya'll.

Thanks for the update!

Still doesn't take their pissy devil attitudes away though...too bad it didn't.

[Derek Roddy]

Still doesn't take their pissy devil attitudes away though...too bad it didn't.

Well, that's not actually true either.

As Tom told Sami...most of the issues attributed to the species comes from there only being exports to work with....which are a handful and bitey.
Most of Tom's captive breed (and others captive breed) White lips are just like any other snake....workable, tame-able...with no issues.


Cheers,
D

[KBHicks2012]

I must admit that the WLP does have a nasty little attitude at times, and I have had a few bloody strikes to prove it, but a the same time my "Mikey" has tamed alot since I first got him, but he and I were force through some tough battles that I think caused some bonding between the two of us. Either way though, please PM with info on breeders if you have some, thank you

[Aaron_S]

Well, that's not actually true either.

As Tom told Sami...most of the issues attributed to the species comes from there only being exports to work with....which are a handful and bitey.
Most of Tom's captive breed (and others captive breed) White lips are just like any other snake....workable, tame-able...with no issues.


Cheers,
D

Yeah? Everyone says this about all species. It's true to some extent but overall, most are still nippy and not quite ball pythons out of the egg.

Not arguing that species tend to get better as they are captive bred more, problem is, most still aren't and I've seen a number of captive bred ones being little devils too.

[Derek Roddy]

Bloods used to get a bad wrap as well.
I started breeding bloods back in the early 90s and, back then if you asked anybody, they were mean, uncontrollable, pissy animals that had no place in the market.

Now look at em......hard to find one that's "mean".

That's all I was getting at.....as more and more of them are actually bred....just like with the bloods....you will see them "tame down" a lot.

D

[lady_bug87]

Man, I really want a pair of WLPs

[marvelfreak]

Man, I really want a pair of WLPs
WLP are really not much different than what you have now. Plus just like Derek said the more they get breed in Captivity the more they slowly tame down.

People just have to be willing to put the work in and not give up. Just like with all snake it about learning how to read them, meeting their needs, and realizing not every snakes the same. My Yellow Anaconda and White Lipped require totally different care and handling than my other snakes. That's what make them so unique and my two favorite snake to work with. Can i get them out any time and handle them like my others hell no. But who cares some snake are just better as display snake. Does this mean we shouldn't breed them? This are the one that need our help the most to survive. Besides pissy snakes are more fun to work with. They keep you on your toes and remind you why they are such amazing animals that have survived for millions of years.:)

[lady_bug87]

I just really want them...

[marvelfreak]

I just really want them...
Are they hard to find in Canada?

[lady_bug87]

Kind of there are some breeders (I know of one anyways) all in due time Chuck. Right now I'm working on getting my ATB breeding project under way

[marvelfreak]

Kind of there are some breeders (I know of one anyways) all in due time Chuck. Right now I'm working on getting my ATB breeding project under way
The longer you wait to get them the more rewarding it will be to a
have them.

[Zoo Nanny]

If any of you are interested in learning more about reintroduction programs here are two links with info and ways you can help. Private breeders are used to help facilitate many release programs. I'm not sure if the Orianne Society uses breeders though.
The Orianne Society | Eastern Indigo Snake Initiative (http://www.oriannesociety.org/)
http://data.iucn.org/dbtw-wpd/edocs/PP-005.pdf

[boosh96]

I'd be the happiest person alive if I could get ahold of a CBB Asian vine snake..