2 sets of siamese twins. What are the chances?

[Gregg M]

Got these 2 sets of Siamese twins in an Ackie clutch.

This set was joind at the head and neck...

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5338/9088220269_48dbf96484_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7456/9088219509_987344779d_b.jpg

And this is like a triclops octopus thing.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3726/9090439076_7ce40c4d60_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7410/9088216677_6c9bf0e34d_b.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3681/9090437152_d462db79e6_b.jpg

[poison123]

Oh wow. Were they alive?

[Gregg M]

Oh wow. Were they alive?

No. Dead in the egg.

[Akuma223]

Wow, you gonna keep those preserved somehow?

[AjaMichelle]

Wow those are amazing! Have the two who were mated produced like this before?

[Mark Taylor]

Never seen that before I guess the chances are slim to none.

[Starbuck]

could there have been any cleaning product/chemical or drug in the incubators/that came into contact with the eggs? Thats seems so odd that you would get two in one clutch, for it not to be environmental.
I suppose it could have been genetic as well, or just random chance, but very interesting nontheless.


If you decide you dont want them, i would contact the vet college nearest to you, they often maintain collections of oddities like this, and may be able to tell you what may have caused it (i.e. if sheep eat a certain plant during pregnancy, their lambs are almost always born with severe defects, like cyclops etc...).

[Terranaut]

I would run out and buy a lottery ticket asap ;)

[Gregg M]

could there have been any cleaning product/chemical or drug in the incubators/that came into contact with the eggs? Thats seems so odd that you would get two in one clutch, for it not to be environmental.

We do not use any cleaning products or chemicals in or around the reptile rooms. We do not disinfect anything at all. Incubators and methods have not changed.

I suppose it could have been genetic as well, or just random chance, but very interesting nontheless.

Siamese or conjoined twining is generally not genetic or environmental. Twinning can be genetic and I just think the odds for them getting conjoined was unfortunately in our favor.

If you decide you dont want them, i would contact the vet college nearest to you, they often maintain collections of oddities like this, and may be able to tell you what may have caused it (i.e. if sheep eat a certain plant during pregnancy, their lambs are almost always born with severe defects, like cyclops etc...).

Unfortunately, I do not feel a vet college or even a good herp vet can say what caused this.

[sweatshirt]

That's sad, but amazing!

[smy_749]

Maybe a fluctuation in temps?

[Pareeeee]

Woah that second one looks like a sea monster. Too bad for the lizards, but it's kinda cool to study just the same.

[Amadeus]

I would put them in a sealed jar with alcohol or formaldehyde.

[nepoez]

Too much inbreeding?

[Gregg M]

Maybe a fluctuation in temps?

Too much inbreeding?

Not sure how these two things would cause twins.

[jarich]

I think its probably just you Gregg. Of course, it could be John's fault too. Hard to say.

[smy_749]

Not sure how these two things would cause twins.

Not that they caused the twins, but that the twins were deformed. Can that not be caused by fluctuations?

[AjaMichelle]

Not that they caused the twins, but that the twins were deformed. Can that not be caused by fluctuations?

Inbreeding depression doesn't occur immediately when closely related individuals are paired. It takes generations, and depends on degrees of relatedness, as well as on the health of the individuals mated.

Temperature fluctuations are unlikely to cause this type of deformity. Extreme heat outside of what's considered optimal would be more likely to just kill the embryos instead of change the way DNA is translated and cells divide.

It's not uncommon for fetuses to be deformed in some way (with respect to vertebrates), what's amazing is that the fetuses survived for so long.

Hey Gregg, had the individuals who produced these offspring been mated before?