Black Rat snake?

[NimbleHand48]

Im thinking about getting a black rat, elaphe obsoleta, and I have some questions. Are they as docile as common morph corns? Ive heard both ways. They are tree climbers, right? So how tall of a cage do I need? As far far as temp and humidity Im guessing it would need 70-85F, and 50-80% percent like most colubrids right? Would it be okay to have some live plants and such? Do they need uv? How much? As far as feeding, a med rat once a week until age 4 or 5, then every two weeks? should I start the hatchling on something smaller?

[smy_749]

Im thinking about getting a black rat, elaphe obsoleta, and I have some questions. Are they as docile as common morph corns? Ive heard both ways. They are tree climbers, right? So how tall of a cage do I need? As far far as temp and humidity Im guessing it would need 70-85F, and 50-80% percent like most colubrids right? Would it be okay to have some live plants and such? Do they need uv? How much? As far as feeding, a med rat once a week until age 4 or 5, then every two weeks? should I start the hatchling on something smaller?

I don't know about the husbandry of them, as I've never kept them in captivity. However they are native here in CT, and I would say they are a bit feistier than corns without a doubt (they are rats afterall) but nothing like red tails or anything.

[Starbuck]

lol i dont know how much luck you would have feeding a hatchling rat snake a medium rat.... :P

i'd start it on rat pups/med mice whatever size is appropriate (slightly larger around than the snake), and graduate your prey size as he grows.

As for cage dimension specifics, i've never kept an arborial colubrid, so someone else will have to chime in...

[smy_749]

lol i dont know how much luck you would have feeding a hatchling rat snake a medium rat.... :P

i'd start it on rat pups/med mice whatever size is appropriate (slightly larger around than the snake), and graduate your prey size as he grows.

As for cage dimension specifics, i've never kept an arborial colubrid, so someone else will have to chime in...

I don't think black rats are 'arboreal' species per say. They can be found dwelling pretty much any habitat, trees being just one of them though they are great climbers.

[Amadeus]

If the snake is native to your area it should be very easy to maintain with only a a heat mat and thermostat. Humidity shouldn't even be an issue.

Derp... Lives in salt lake city, srry

[NimbleHand48]

Yeah I dont think I would find one in Utah. I used to live in Indiana, and i would see them sometimes there. For feeding, I really wasnt planning on med rats from the start, I dont know why i wrote that lol. Im going to be getting a captive bred hatchling, so Im not too worried about temperament. I worked at a pet store for a little while, so i have some basic experience.

[Mikoh4792]

Im thinking about getting a black rat, elaphe obsoleta, and I have some questions. Are they as docile as common morph corns? Ive heard both ways. They are tree climbers, right? So how tall of a cage do I need? As far far as temp and humidity Im guessing it would need 70-85F, and 50-80% percent like most colubrids right? Would it be okay to have some live plants and such? Do they need uv? How much? As far as feeding, a med rat once a week until age 4 or 5, then every two weeks? should I start the hatchling on something smaller?

You could still make use of a 1 foot high enclosure by providing branches. Although if I were keeping a black rat(which I may soon), I would give my adult 3 feet of climbing space. Just to give it the option of climbing if it wants to.

[NimbleHand48]

[QUOTE]I would give my adult 3 feet of climbing space. Just to give it the option of climbing if it wants[QUOTE] Yeah, we're going to try for three to four feet of vertical space.

How do you figure out how much space the adult will need? Is there a formula that goes by size, or does each species have its own requirements?

[Mikoh4792]

[QUOTE]I would give my adult 3 feet of climbing space. Just to give it the option of climbing if it wants[QUOTE] Yeah, we're going to try for three to four feet of vertical space.

How do you figure out how much space the adult will need? Is there a formula that goes by size, or does each species have its own requirements?

I don't figure out lol. I can never give it as much space as it would optimally use in it's natural habitat. 3 feet of height is just the size I would decide to give it. You can give it more or less as long as it works for the snake. I'll be doing more research of my own anyways so my decision can always change after I learn what's best for it.

[Lankyrob]

[QUOTE]I would give my adult 3 feet of climbing space. Just to give it the option of climbing if it wants[QUOTE] Yeah, we're going to try for three to four feet of vertical space.

How do you figure out how much space the adult will need? Is there a formula that goes by size, or does each species have its own requirements?

Personally i would give as much space as you efficiently can

[Zoo Nanny]

When I worked at the zoo we had a Black Rat Snake. It was kept in a 3x4x6 area and used every inch of it. One of the most active snakes I've ever dealt with. I would say that at least 75% of his time was spent climbing.

[StudentoReptile]

They will definitely use every bit of the habitat. Most members of E. obsoleta are naturally a bit more fiestier and highstrung than the typical cornsnake, but they can mellow out fairly quickly.

[NimbleHand48]

Okay, well the reason I asked that was becauae I was wondering what the minimal requirements are as far as space. But I guess lots of snakes are kept in rubbermaid tubs and stuff like that.

What is the best way to hook up heating and lighting? Ive been looking at various thermostats and heating methods, but I would like some feedback. Ive always just used a zoomed UTH and plugged it into a power strip, but now Im learning that its not the safest way to do it? Im on a tight budget, so RBI heating systems are a little out of reach right now. Do I need to provide UV?

[Mikoh4792]

Okay, well the reason I asked that was becauae I was wondering what the minimal requirements are as far as space. But I guess lots of snakes are kept in rubbermaid tubs and stuff like that.

What is the best way to hook up heating and lighting? Ive been looking at various thermostats and heating methods, but I would like some feedback. Ive always just used a zoomed UTH and plugged it into a power strip, but now Im learning that its not the safest way to do it? Im on a tight budget, so RBI heating systems are a little out of reach right now. Do I need to provide UV?

Depends on the conditions of your house really. You may need more than just an UTH if your house gets cold or you just don't use the heater during the Winter.

Right now I have my terrestrial snakes on UTH's and arboreal/semi-arboreal snakes under heat lamps.

In a year or so I will move all of them to plastic enclosures with both belly heat and radiant heat panels.(I'll use RHP as main source, and belly heat as supplemental heat during winter when the ambient air temperatures drop.

You said you are on a budget. You could just use an UTH or a heat lamp as long as it provides a good thermal gradiant across the enclosure. Budget or no budget you'll still need to control the heat with a thermostat.

I'm not an expert with snakes and lighting but I think most keepers agree that most snakes don't require UV. I still use uv lighting but for lighting purposes only.

[NimbleHand48]

Ok, Im planning on getting a thermostat. Im used to using uths paired with heat lamps, but I thought Id explore some options. On another note, do black rats need a brumation(hibernation) period in the winter?

[Jules1618]

I have a 2009 Leucistic Taxas Rat Snake and she is a bitch, beautiful snake though

[possum]

I used to keep & raise "black ratsnakes" (mostly amels) & they make good pets, though not quite as docile as corn snakes. Much of that depends on you though. And they get bigger, 6' or so, and appreciate all the space you can give them to climb or roam. I mostly kept them when I lived in the desert, and paid NO attention to humidity for them...they did just fine. A "medium rat" is WAAAAAY too much food even for a large adult ratsnake. My largest ones would eat a small (weaned) rat about every 2 weeks. Hatchlings will take large pinky/fuzzy mice...progress from there. Not sure how live plants will work out...I don't generally do that, most plants not too sturdy? The snakes don't need UV, but your plants might need more light than the snakes will appreciate? Personally I'd put some natural (waterproofed) branches diagonally in the cage...much more durable than live plants. (or construct a "jungle-gym" out of PVC) Interesting snakes, a good choice IMO. (yes to 70-85*)

[NimbleHand48]

So, my husband showed me some pictures and a video of a Japanese rat snake, and they are sweet looking. We did a little more research on them, and were actually thinking about getting one instead of a black rat. Any thoughts?

[possum]

Sorry, not familiar with Japanese ratsnakes. If you get one, we'd love to hear how it goes. (I do have Korean ratsnakes...they are similar to Russian ratsnakes but WAY more shy, hard to tame, & more racer-like.)

[leper65]

I have a Japanese Rat Snake and while they are bit more shy, with handling it wouldn't be a problem. Mine stays hidden when I'm in the room unless it's feeding time. They have the reputation of being good eaters, and mine lives up to that billing. He doesn't like to be watched though.

I have Black Rat Snakes around the property here and they don't seem too bad either. One yearling in my garage tried to kill me. Another yearling was as tame as my corn snakes. Two LARGE adults I fished out of the neighbors community bird house were pretty civil to me. They climbed up a bare pipe 10 or 12 feet to get in that bird house so they are quite the climbers and would need a bigger viv than a Japanese Rat.

Corn Snake caresheet would be a good start for either.

[leper65]

Found a care sheet and other links for Elaphe climacophora:

Japanese Rat Snake Care Sheet (http://reptitrader.co.uk/care-sheets/japanese-rat-snake-care-sheet)

A C Snakes - JAPANESE RAT SNAKE CARE SHEET - Elaphe Climacophora (http://acsnakes.co.uk/care/japanese.htm)

Elaphe climacophora - Japanese Ratsnake - Ratsnake Foundation (http://www.ratsnakefoundation.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57:elaphe-climacophora-&catid=6:asian-ratsnakes&Itemid=12)

Elaphe climacophora - Notes (http://www.ratsnakezone.com/ratsnake-information/80.html)

[NimbleHand48]

Good stuff to know, thanks leper65. Do you have pictures of your setup?

[NimbleHand48]

Update: I bought a black rat snake from a guy that had one in the local ad this past saturday. $60 for the juvenile, ten gallon tank, and a lamp. Hes about 18 inches, and pretty nippy, but I expected that since hes been stressed. The guy said the last time he was fed was three weeks ago! First feeding attempt was sunday. I planned on moving him to a 30 gallon, but the heat lamp i have isnt powerful enough, so i moved him back to the ten until i can upgrade heating to flexwatt and a bigger heat lamp lampin the next couple weeks. I had an UTH, but it was melting. He finally ate today! Will be feeding again in the next couple days. He has been sexed, so we named him Loki. Im so excited! Any tips or input is welcome.

[Mikoh4792]

Update: I bought a black rat snake from a guy that had one in the local ad this past saturday. $60 for the juvenile, ten gallon tank, and a lamp. Hes about 18 inches, and pretty nippy, but I expected that since hes been stressed. The guy said the last time he was fed was three weeks ago! First feeding attempt was sunday. I planned on moving him to a 30 gallon, but the heat lamp i have isnt powerful enough, so i moved him back to the ten until i can upgrade heating to flexwatt and a bigger heat lamp lampin the next couple weeks. I had an UTH, but it was melting. He finally ate today! Will be feeding again in the next couple days. He has been sexed, so we named him Loki. Im so excited! Any tips or input is welcome.

Nice to know he fed. Why would your undertank heater melt? Are you controlling it with a thermostat?

[NimbleHand48]

No, i was not using a thermostat because i had never had problems with them melting before, but this one went all crazy after a year of working great. Anyhow, i took it back to petsmart and got a $40 credit toward stuff that isnt worth paying shipping for (feeding tongs, etc) or stuff for our other pets. Like i said, im switching to flexwatt and a hydrofarm thermostat until i can get a spyder robotics one. Overall hes doing well.