snake n00b with some questions

[jawramik]

I'm not 100% if this thread is in the right place, so I apologise in advance if this is misplaced.

I've been a lifelong lover of snaked, but never really had the chance to seriously having one of my own pretty recently. I've been doing some research, but much of the information is often contradicted in another source.

Basically, I'm just trying to figure out what snake I should get.

I don't have a lot of space, so I definitely need a small snake that doesn't need a massive enclosure. I also want a snake I can handle, not just something that's pretty to look at.

Most people seem to be in agreement that corn snakes are good "first" snakes, and I have no objection to corn snakes. They're beautiful. I'm just curious if a corn snake is the absolute best snake for a first-time snake owner.

I've always loved king snakes and milk snakes, but from the reading I've done, there seems to be some inconsistencies regarding how easy they are, specifically with king snakes. Do milk snakes generally have similar temperaments to king snakes, and are king snakes easy to handle or not? Some sources I've read say they make the best pets, and some sources have said that they're just plain mean.

I also LOVE pythons and boas, but I'm not aware of any that don't grow to enormous sizes. What is smallest python/boa, how big do they get, and how would they compare to, say, a corn snake in terms of temperament?

I had a bearded dragon for about ten years and loved him dearly, so I'm not a total herp virgin, but I'm aware that snakes are very different.

any and all insight would be greatly appreciated.

[infernalis]

from my own experience, Milk snakes & King snakes are not really keen on handling, If you are going to handle the snake frequently, Corn snakes are a lot more tolerant of the handling.

[Lankyrob]

Sounds like you want either a corn or a ball python, although to my mind the BP needs a larger vivarium.

[Mikoh4792]

I'm not 100% if this thread is in the right place, so I apologise in advance if this is misplaced.

I've been a lifelong lover of snaked, but never really had the chance to seriously having one of my own pretty recently. I've been doing some research, but much of the information is often contradicted in another source.

Basically, I'm just trying to figure out what snake I should get.

I don't have a lot of space, so I definitely need a small snake that doesn't need a massive enclosure. I also want a snake I can handle, not just something that's pretty to look at.

Most people seem to be in agreement that corn snakes are good "first" snakes, and I have no objection to corn snakes. They're beautiful. I'm just curious if a corn snake is the absolute best snake for a first-time snake owner.

I've always loved king snakes and milk snakes, but from the reading I've done, there seems to be some inconsistencies regarding how easy they are, specifically with king snakes. Do milk snakes generally have similar temperaments to king snakes, and are king snakes easy to handle or not? Some sources I've read say they make the best pets, and some sources have said that they're just plain mean.

I also LOVE pythons and boas, but I'm not aware of any that don't grow to enormous sizes. What is smallest python/boa, how big do they get, and how would they compare to, say, a corn snake in terms of temperament?

I had a bearded dragon for about ten years and loved him dearly, so I'm not a total herp virgin, but I'm aware that snakes are very different.

any and all insight would be greatly appreciated.

I'm speaking from my own experience. Kingsnakes will eat everything that moves! There are many that are docile however all the kings I used to own tried to eat me. They never struck at me defensively, every time they bit me they constricted. I'm only speaking from experience and there are kings out there that are not like this.

Again, speaking from experience milks tend to be "tamer". They seem to be more flighty and nervous than kings but all the adults I have owned were very calm. I've never been bitten by a milksnake either. However most subspecies of milksnake like to burrow so you won't see them out much during the day.

There are many python and boa species that will stay small. I don't know how small you want to go but I think one of the smallest group of pythons are the Spotted/Stimsons/Childrens(I group these together because they are similar to eachother).

For boas you can look up Dwarf/Island boas. The smallest mature at 2-3 feet and the larger mature around 4-6. There are too many to name. If you go to kingsnake classifieds and look under " Hog Island and insular boas" or " locality subspecific boas" you should find a whole list that fits you. You could also check out rosy and sand boas. Or Dwarf Indonesian tree boas.

If you don't mind something that can get 6-7 ft you should check out carpet pythons, brazilian rainbow boas.

[Starbuck]

a kingsnake was my first snake, and i have had some issues with feeding responses when she was a bit younger, but now that is all but resolved with some conditioning on the snake AND human side of things (hook training is your friend!). They stay around 4 feet and can live pretty comfortably in a smaller viv, though you should go as big as you feasibly can. It depends alot of the particular king you get, they are each different. My female is incredibly bold and active, my male is a little more nervous, but neither are 'bad' snakes, neither bite anymore, and are really fun to watch exploring.

I've found that milk snakes tend to be much more nervous, though this too depends on the individual.
I also have two corns, and they are both dolls to handle. I've never had any issues with them.

I think it boils down to what YOU want in a snake. If you like the look of bcd/bcc, look into dwarf boas. If you really want a colubrid, pick something that really catches your eye. There are tons of variations in all of those groups as far as morphs go, so you're sure to not be disappointed.
If you want to look into boas, rosy boas, rubber boas, etc stay small, as well as ball pythons etc.
Good luck!

[valid]

Sandboas are wonderful. They stay small, have wonderful personalities - and are very unique looking.

I never had a problem with King snakes growing up. I will give a nod to them as well.

Milk snakes aesthetically are one of my absolute favorites. As far as personality wise, they are pretty skiddish. My milk snake is my problem child, but it improves every day.

[KORBIN5895]

I'm speaking from my own experience. Kingsnakes will eat everything that moves! There are many that are docile however all the kings I used to own tried to eat me. They never struck at me defensively, every time they bit me they constricted. I'm only speaking from experience and there are kings out there that are not like this.

Again, speaking from experience milks tend to be "tamer". They seem to be more flighty and nervous than kings but all the adults I have owned were very calm. I've never been bitten by a milksnake either. However most subspecies of milksnake like to burrow so you won't see them out much during the day.

There are many python and boa species that will stay small. I don't know how small you want to go but I think one of the smallest group of pythons are the Spotted/Stimsons/Childrens(I group these together because they are similar to eachother).

For boas you can look up Dwarf/Island boas. The smallest mature at 2-3 feet and the larger mature around 4-6. There are too many to name. If you go to kingsnake classifieds and look under " Hog Island and insular boas" or " locality subspecific boas" you should find a whole list that fits you. You could also check out rosy and sand boas. Or Dwarf Indonesian tree boas.

If you don't mind something that can get 6-7 ft you should check out carpet pythons, brazilian rainbow boas.

Haven't you only owned 3 three snakes?

@op

Sand, rosy and rubber boas all stay under three feet for sure. I personally would go with a corn snake as they are very forgiving in husbandry mistakes.

[Mikoh4792]

Haven't you only owned 3 three snakes?

@op

Sand, rosy and rubber boas all stay under three feet for sure. I personally would go with a corn snake as they are very forgiving in husbandry mistakes.

lol no. I used to own close to 50 years back. Due to certain circumstances in my life(Moving to another country) I had to either give them away or sell them all. My first post here mentioned how I was getting back into the hobby. Right now I have 6 snakes... or had since my cay caulker just passed away.

[jawramik]

Thank you all for the advice!

My dad's friend (who is a herpetologist) has offered to custom-build an enclosure for me, so size is not as big of an issue as I thought it was. His "top picks" for me as a first-time snake owner are corn snakes, ball pythons, or red-tailed boas, which seems like it's keeping with what you guys have told me.

I'm strongly leaning towards a ball python, as I've always found them beautiful, and they're not enormous, but still big enough to look...I can't think of the right word. "Substantial" is close, I guess.

Truth me told, I've always adored huge snakes. Like the more physically possible it would be for a snake to eat me, the more I'm infatuated with it. But just practically speaking, I know I'm just not equipped to own a huge snake.

One more question: should I aim to get a juvenile snake, or an adult? Or does it matter (provided, of course, that I'm prepared and have the space for an adult and know I can accomodate it once it's fully-grown if I get a baby)?

[smy_749]

Thank you all for the advice!

My dad's friend (who is a herpetologist) has offered to custom-build an enclosure for me, so size is not as big of an issue as I thought it was. His "top picks" for me as a first-time snake owner are corn snakes, ball pythons, or red-tailed boas, which seems like it's keeping with what you guys have told me.

I'm strongly leaning towards a ball python, as I've always found them beautiful, and they're not enormous, but still big enough to look...I can't think of the right word. "Substantial" is close, I guess.

Truth me told, I've always adored huge snakes. Like the more physically possible it would be for a snake to eat me, the more I'm infatuated with it. But just practically speaking, I know I'm just not equipped to own a huge snake.

One more question: should I aim to get a juvenile snake, or an adult? Or does it matter (provided, of course, that I'm prepared and have the space for an adult and know I can accomodate it once it's fully-grown if I get a baby)?

Lol.

On a more serious note, I would get a captive bred baby, so you can watch it grow and shed and take on bigger meals, change colors, etc.

[CollinGallows]

Ball python

Corn snake

King snake

All good starter snakes

[jawramik]

Lol.

On a more serious note, I would get a captive bred baby, so you can watch it grow and shed and take on bigger meals, change colors, etc.
Ha, I didn't even notice the double entendre there until re-reading it just now. But seriously, practicality aside, my "dream snake" would be one of those enormous white and yellow (albino?) pythons. you know, the kind that's big enough to wear wrapped around your body and eats small children that throw temper tantrums in the grocery store.

And yeah, I would definitely enjoy watching a baby grow up. I really enjoyed watching my bearded dragon growing from being the size of my thumb to the size of my forearm. Also, I'd presume that it's generally preferrable to get a baby and make sure to handle it frequently so it's properly socialised with humans, rather than getting an adult with an unknown history who might be more anti-social. At least with all the animals I've had experience with thus far (cats, dogs, lizards, horses), it's always easier to start more or less from sqaure one and teach an animal good behaviour than it is to have to undo bad habits an animal has adopted due to a previous owner giving it sub-par care.

As with just about everything, I presume buying a snake from a good breeder is the way to go rather than getting a snake from a pet store, yes? I've already been in contact with a breeder and collector who specialises in king snakes and sveral types of pythons (including ball pythons). He has an absolutely stunning lavender-eyed king snake for sale, which is part of why I've been so keen on king snakes, but ease of handling is really what's most important to me. Well, that and the fact that when I was a child (around 10 years old, I think), I caught a wild baby king snake and reallyreally wanted to take it home and keep it as a pet but knew it wouldn't really be right to do that. I just held it long enough for my mom to take a few pictures and then released it, but I adored that snake, and for a while after that I wanted a king snake of my own so badly, and thought my parents might be more willing to let me have a snake that's much smaller than the afore-mentioned enormous python. But my parents wouldn't let me have any kind of snake. Probably because they knew they'd end up being the ones to feed it, lol. Well, that combined with the fact that snakes are not the greatest pets for young children, especially if they're the one in charge of caring for it. I was pretty bitter about it at the time, but looking back on the situation as an adult, I feel they did the right thing. I ended up getting a bearded dragon fairly soon after the king snake incident, which in hindsight was a much more appropriate "first reptile."

Also, should a baby be housed in an enclosure big enough to accomodate its adult size, or can it be kept in a smaller enclosure when it's itty bitty? I know some animals will sort of grow to fit their enclosure, and keeping animals like that in small enclosures can stunt their growth, and I definitely don't want a bonsai snake. However, I'd have a lot more options on where to set up the enclosure if it's kosher to use a smaller enclosure when the snake is small. Also, it means that I wouldn't have to wait for my friend to finish building the big lavish snake mansion (which he's already drawn up plans and started collecting materials for). Not that having to wait on this enclosure is any sort of deal-breaker, I'm just impatient, lol. I've wanted a snake literally as long as I can remember, and now that the path to snake ownership is finally laid out at my feet, I'm about as excited as a kid trying to get to sleep before Christmas morning, haha. But I also want to be sure I do this right. I've already waited 20 years for a snake, so what's a few more months?

All that being said, however, if it would be all right to keep a baby python in a 60 gallon tank that I already have (it housed my beardie) for a few months, I'll go out and collect supplies for a python habitat and pay a visit to the breeder tomorrow! I know he currently has two baby ball pythons available, and ideally I'd be able to have a suitable set up in time to get one of them, though it's not the end of the world if that doesn't work out.

[Starbuck]

generally you can keep a hatchling snake in an adult sized enclosure, what is important is the hides; they must be appropriately sized for the snake, so that it can coil inside and feel tight and secure.
Contrary to your post; an animals growth will NOT be stunted by a smaller cage, they will continue to grow to their regular adult size, just becoming more and more uncomfortable. However, i believe a 60 gallon tank would be appropriate for most fully grown ball pythons, as long as you make the necessary modifications (you will need to change the mesh screen lid for something solid to maintain appropriate humidity).

I also believe a 60 gallon tank will comfortably house an adult kingsnake, and they tend to be much more active than ball pythons :) plus, they can live in an unmodified tank (as long as you still monitor temps and humidity).
Good luck :)

[Lankyrob]

I have housed all my hatchlings straight into adult sized enclosures but provide around 90% of the floor space as hiding places using hides plus fake foliage etc

[Mikoh4792]

Also, should a baby be housed in an enclosure big enough to accomodate its adult size, or can it be kept in a smaller enclosure when it's itty bitty? I know some animals will sort of grow to fit their enclosure, and keeping animals like that in small enclosures can stunt their growth, and I definitely don't want a bonsai snake. However, I'd have a lot more options on where to set up the enclosure if it's kosher to use a smaller enclosure when the snake is small. Also, it means that I wouldn't have to wait for my friend to finish building the big lavish snake mansion (which he's already drawn up plans and started collecting materials for). Not that having to wait on this enclosure is any sort of deal-breaker, I'm just impatient, lol. I've wanted a snake literally as long as I can remember, and now that the path to snake ownership is finally laid out at my feet, I'm about as excited as a kid trying to get to sleep before Christmas morning, haha. But I also want to be sure I do this right. I've already waited 20 years for a snake, so what's a few more months?


That is simply not true. Your snake will grow regardless of the size of it's enclosure.

[jawramik]

I forget where I heard about small enclosures potentially stunting growth....it might have been in regards to some kind(s) of tropical fish now that I think of it...at any rate, it's definitely good to know that's a myth, and it's good to know that a 60 gallon tank is adequate. I already have two tops for the tank: a mesh lid that I used with my beardie, and a glass top that my mom used when she had a salt water aquarium. This tank has definitely seen some milage, and I don't think it's 100% water tight anymore, but, I mean, a glass tank is a glass tank. I'd imagine that the aquarium top would be adequate to maintain humidity, though I'll have to double-check and make sure there aren't any gaping holes to accomodate the water filtration system from back when it was used as an aquarium lid.

[Mikoh4792]

I forget where I heard about small enclosures potentially stunting growth....it might have been in regards to some kind(s) of tropical fish now that I think of it...at any rate, it's definitely good to know that's a myth, and it's good to know that a 60 gallon tank is adequate. I already have two tops for the tank: a mesh lid that I used with my beardie, and a glass top that my mom used when she had a salt water aquarium. This tank has definitely seen some milage, and I don't think it's 100% water tight anymore, but, I mean, a glass tank is a glass tank. I'd imagine that the aquarium top would be adequate to maintain humidity, though I'll have to double-check and make sure there aren't any gaping holes to accomodate the water filtration system from back when it was used as an aquarium lid.

It's okay, you won't have to cover the whole screen top anyways just to maintain 50-70% humidity. If you did that you'd be sacrificing ventilation/air circulation. As long as you have a large water bowl, some bedding that absorbs moisture and some heat you should be fine.

Something you can do with a larger enclosure you can't do with a smaller enclosure is put in a lot of hides along the thermal gradient. So Instead of having one cool hide that is "x" degrees and one warm hide that is "x" degrees you can have multiple hides with varying temperatures.