How do I keep my BP's cage humid?

[ErikBush97]

Hey, Everyone. If you've read my previous posts, you may know I was thinking about getting a ball python. Well... I did! And I bought a FULL setup for him/her that includes everything I'll need for the next year or two (besides the food, of course). anyways, I just got him/her today, and I'm experiencing a problem. I cannot keep the terrarium humid!!! It's at about 70/75 F degrees (and rising) with about 10% humidity. That definitely doesn't seem right to me. I have some humidity spray that came with the setup I bought but I'd have to use the whole bottle to make a dent in the humidity. What should I do, and what's the appropriate humidity %? Thanks everyone.

[Terranaut]

Lets see the setup and give a list of what you bought.
Hard to help without it.

[smy_749]

70-75 is too cool. Humidity spray ? Fancy term for water or excuse to charge 12$ for something a bottle of water does. Cover the top with wood or plexi , no screen tops and get it warmer. Shoulda tested before you got ghe animal. Srry bout the short response. On my phone

[ErikBush97]

Smy I specified that it was 70-75 and rising. I have two light fixtures and I turned one off for a while so I could put a UVB bulb in it. Just added a heat mat under the terrarium, too. So it'll be getting hotter.

[Valvaren]

Idk what kind of research you did but from what you've posted I am willing to bet you got swindled into buying a pile of junk.

[ErikBush97]

Lets see the setup and give a list of what you bought.
Hard to help without it.
2 reflector dome light fixtures
Two bulbs (Day Blue & Night black + I bought a 5.0 UVB)
A bowl
Humidity & Temp gauge
Tropical Mist Humidifying spray
Bark Blend Premium Bedding
Log shaped Hiding space
And the 20 gal terrarium, itself.
30"L x 12"W x 12"H

[Valvaren]

Yup...........

[ErikBush97]

Idk what kind of research you did but from what you've posted I am willing to bet you got swindled into buying a pile of junk.

I am not an expert but I'm not an idiot. Read the list of what I bought (it's in this thread). The Ball Python was originally $80, the set up was originally $150. walked away with all that + the snake for $120. If anything, I swindled them.

[Valvaren]

You bought it a bunch of stuff you don't need, and since you didn't know you didn't need it I would say you have more learning to do.

Also why does the quote say my name is Vaan3308

[valid]

Try setting up a humid hide perhaps?
A 99 cent Tupperware container, filled with wet sphagnum moss over the heating source (with an opening of course) can help bump humidity. At least it did for me.

Congrats on your new snake c:

[Aaron_S]

I am not an expert but I'm not an idiot. Read the list of what I bought (it's in this thread). The Ball Python was originally $80, the set up was originally $150. walked away with all that + the snake for $120. If anything, I swindled them.

Just for the record, I can set up a ball python for 20 bucks and get one for 25. A third of your cost. I wouldn't call you an idiot but you certainly could have done a bit more research into products.

Anyway, it's in a glass cage which isn't ideal for snakes, in particular ball pythons. You'll need to modify the lid to fix the issue.

Another option is to not use lights as they suck out the heat from the air. Undertank heating pads or heat tape work wonderfully when hooked up to a thermostat.

[ErikBush97]

You bought a bunch of stuff you don't need, and since you didn't know you didn't need it I would say you have more learning to do.

Also why does the quote say my name is Vaan3308

I'm not sure, honestly.

[ErikBush97]

Good news, everyone. Took a second to think about it... And I fixed my humidity issue! :) I put the Python in the carrying box, took out the bowl, hide space, Etc, left the bark. Put the terrarium on it's side, with the mesh lid facing forward and put everything + the snake back in. Thus, making the top of the terarrium glass, trapping in some humidity :) The cage is at the recommended 60% humidity. Still need it to heat up about 5/10 degrees.

[Terranaut]

2 reflector dome light fixtures
Two bulbs (Day Blue & Night black + I bought a 5.0 UVB)
A bowl
Humidity & Temp gauge
Tropical Mist Humidifying spray
Bark Blend Premium Bedding
Log shaped Hiding space
And the 20 gal terrarium, itself.
30"L x 12"W x 12"H

Well that is a typical pet store sale. Did we not say in your other thread not to get a fish tank? Even a rubermade tub with a few holes is better . I am sorry to say this but you failed at listening and will most likely have problems fron here on out. Also, the first thing you said was the cost. People on this site hate that. This is an animal and once you buy it the "value" of it is no longer about money.
Good luck. Next time listen to us :(

This is post #5 in your other thread
The real question is can you afford the initial cost. If you buy a front opening snake viv and heat it with Flexwatt on a thermostat then yes, you can easily take care of one. But if you buy an aquarium with a heat lamp you will constantly be on here asking what is wrong. Buy the right setup and care is very easy.

I rest my case. Here you are asking what is wrong. Why ask for advise you won't take?

[TheSuppishOne]

And Terranaut lands with a crushing right hook.

[Mikoh4792]

What temp/humidity gauges did you buy? Some can be inaccurate, especially the stick on ones from the store.

If you lay the tank on it's side how are you heating it?

[Terranaut]

And Terranaut lands with a crushing right hook.

Well the truth is I told him that if he bought a fish tank he would have issues and within a day or two he did. Why come here,ask good questions, get great info from experienced keepers then ignore it all? He was told no aquarium, no heat lamps and to use a thermostat. Was any of this followed.....Nope :(
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/tumblr_ly2toleFWz1rn0qyoo1_250_zps060a6225.gif

[Mikoh4792]

Well the truth is I told him that if he bought a fish tank he would have issues and within a day or two he did. Why come here,ask good questions, get great info from experienced keepers then ignore it all? He was told no aquarium, no heat lamps and to use a thermostat. Was any of this followed.....Nope :(
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/tumblr_ly2toleFWz1rn0qyoo1_250_zps060a6225.gif

nice gif.

Would you say that heat lamps are a bad source of heat? If so, what to do in the colder seasons when a heat pad will not suffice? Also do you prefer racks to enclosures or the other way around for keeping snakes?(enclosures as in animal plastics, vision cages...etc).

[Terranaut]

I prefer enclosures. I like a nice display enclosure and racks are not my thing but are way better than fish tanks. If your heat source is inadequate you should be replacing it not bandaiding it with a light. The setup he has can be fine for certain snakes but not a royal.

[smy_749]

Aaron, you can probably get a normal for free :P Nobody wants them anyways.

To the original poster, who told you a ball python needs UVB? All that money you spent would have been better spent this way.

Rubbermaid tub
Hygrofarm thermostat
Undertank heater

[Valvaren]

Also for the record I never said you were an idiot and I don't want you to think I did,I simple wanted to point out to me it feels like you jumped in after gazing over one care sheet that's all. I also must echo another member by asking why you didn't test the setup before even bringing the animal home.

I wish you luck in fixing things and I hope you can return most of it if not all because if it is from a pet store I wouldn't put much stock on the 'stats.

[Aaron_S]

Aaron, you can probably get a normal for free :P Nobody wants them anyways.

To the original poster, who told you a ball python needs UVB? All that money you spent would have been better spent this way.

Rubbermaid tub
Hygrofarm thermostat
Undertank heater

I hatch normals so yes I do get them for "free" but don't ever think no one wants them. They are always wanted.

[ErikBush97]

Well that is a typical pet store sale. Did we not say in your other thread not to get a fish tank? Even a rubermade tub with a few holes is better . I am sorry to say this but you failed at listening and will most likely have problems fron here on out. Also, the first thing you said was the cost. People on this site hate that. This is an animal and once you buy it the "value" of it is no longer about money.
Good luck. Next time listen to us :(

This is post #5 in your other thread


I rest my case. Here you are asking what is wrong. Why ask for advise you won't take?

I know everyone said tubs, but I didn't know how big the BP was, so I am buying a tub later. I went to buy one Saturday but couldn't decide which to get. The reason I talked about cost, btw, is because I want the snake to be happy, and I'm not going to a pet store with $50 if I'll need $100. (Just an example). I really care about my animals. All of them, and as I said, was going to buy a tub today, anyway.

[ErikBush97]

What temp/humidity gauges did you buy? Some can be inaccurate, especially the stick on ones from the store.

If you lay the tank on it's side how are you heating it?

1 heat mat/pad under the tank, and 1 Heat light.

[Mikoh4792]

1 heat mat/pad under the tank, and 1 Heat light.

How are you heating it with a heat light? Do you shine it sideways through the screen?

Also what temp/humidity gauges are you using?

[ErikBush97]

Also for the record I never said you were an idiot and I don't want you to think I did,I simple wanted to point out to me it feels like you jumped in after gazing over one care sheet that's all. I also must echo another member by asking why you didn't test the setup before even bringing the animal home.

I wish you luck in fixing things and I hope you can return most of it if not all because if it is from a pet store I wouldn't put much stock on the 'stats.

I know you didn't.
And I've told terranaught this already. This is just a temperary setup. I looked at tubs, which he suggested a while ago. The thing is that I couldn't decide on any size tub, because I didn't know how big he was.

[Mikoh4792]

I know everyone said tubs, but I didn't know how big the BP was, so I am buying a tub later. I went to buy one Saturday but couldn't decide which to get. The reason I talked about cost, btw, is because I want the snake to be happy, and I'm going to a pet store with $50 if I'll need $100. (Just an example). I really care about my animals. All of them, and as I said, was going to buy a tub today, anyway.

If you didn't know how big the BP was then why buy the 20 gallon? You could have bought a tub with similar dimensions for cheaper. Just trying to save money.

[ErikBush97]

I bought the Python at the same pet store as the terrarium, and at the same time.
But now I know how big the snake is (1.5") and theres a Big Lots right next to my house. I'll buy a tub there once I get a chance!

[Mikoh4792]

I bought the Python at the same pet store as the terrarium, and at the same time.
But now I know how big the snake is (1.5") and theres a Big Lots right next to my house. I'll buy a tub there once I get a chance!

You already have a 20 gallon tank and an UTH. Glass enclosures are not good snake enclosures becuase people don't know how to make them good snake enclosures. Just cover the 3 sides of the tank and put something over the screen top to retain heat and humidity. You don't need to go out and buy another enclosure for it.

Glass tank
3 sides covered
UTH on thermostat
Screen top covered
Large water dish
Spray water occasionally

Can you just answer this question please. Which gauges are you using? It could just be that your humidity levels are fine but your gauges are inaccurate. It's not hard to keep humidity levels for a BP unless you dry the air out with a heat lamp or leave the screen top uncovered.

[jarich]

He has the tank, and the snake, so a bunch of "I told you so" probably isnt going to help. There is nothing wrong with using glass, and its not at all difficult to adapt the lid.

To the OP, after what you have already bought, the only other thing you need to buy is another hide for the cool side. (the cave type hides are better than the half log style ones as they like it dark and tight during the day while they are sleeping) That way you have a hide on the hot and cool sides. You can simply cover the screen top with a piece of wood or plexiglass and that will solve your humidity and heating problems. If you are still having a problem with humidity, buy a live plant, like a pothos, and put the entire thing with the pot inside the tank. It will increase the humidity and also give more ground cover for your snake to feel secure.

[Mikoh4792]

He has the tank, and the snake, so a bunch of "I told you so" probably isnt going to help. There is nothing wrong with using glass, and its not at all difficult to adapt the lid.

To the OP, after what you have already bought, the only other thing you need to buy is another hide for the cool side. (the cave type hides are better than the half log style ones as they like it dark and tight during the day while they are sleeping) That way you have a hide on the hot and cool sides. You can simply cover the screen top with a piece of wood or plexiglass and that will solve your humidity and heating problems. If you are still having a problem with humidity, buy a live plant, like a pothos, and put the entire thing with the pot inside the tank. It will increase the humidity and also give more ground cover for your snake to feel secure.

Basically this. I don't know if you already have a thermostat but you will want to get one of those if you don't already have one. Leaving your heat source on without any kind of controller can cause over heating.

You don't even need to get wood or plexiglass. Anything that can cover the screen top sufficiently will do.

[ErikBush97]

You already have a 20 gallon tank and an UTH. Glass enclosures are not good snake enclosures becuase people don't know how to make them good snake enclosures. Just cover the 3 sides of the tank and put something over the screen top to retain heat and humidity. You don't need to go out and buy another enclosure for it.

Glass tank
3 sides covered
UTH on thermostat
Screen top covered
Large water dish
Spray water occasionally

Can you just answer this question please. Which gauges are you using? It could just be that your humidity levels are fine but your gauges are inaccurate. It's not hard to keep humidity levels for a BP unless you dry the air out with a heat lamp or leave the screen top uncovered.

It's a zilla temp/humidity gauge that came with the tank.

[Mikoh4792]

It's a zilla temp/humidity gauge that came with the tank.

I wouldn't rely on those. The cheap stick on gauges bought from pet stores are usually inaccurate or stop working.

In my experience, the only ones bought from pet stores that have been fairly accurate are the zoomed digital thermometer and fluker's digital thermometer/hydrometer.

Amazon.com: Zoo Med Digital Terrarium Thermometer: Pet Supplies (http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Digital-Terrarium-Thermometer/dp/B000MD3MFA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370286164&sr=8-1&keywords=zoo+med+thermometer)

Amazon.com: Fluker's Digital Thermometer/Hygrometer: Pet Supplies (http://www.amazon.com/Flukers-34134-Digital-Thermometer-Hygrometer/dp/B0009YJWW4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370286153&sr=8-1&keywords=fluker%27s+digital+thermometer)


I use both along with Accurite Thermometer/Hydrometers. A lot of people seem to like these

Amazon.com: AcuRite 00325 Home Comfort Monitor, Black: Home & Kitchen (http://www.amazon.com/AcuRite-00325-Comfort-Monitor-Black/dp/B004K8RF10/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1370286212&sr=8-2&keywords=accurite)

These have probes so you can place them in more precise locations such as inside a hide or inside the substrate...etc

AcuRite Digital Thermometer with Temperature Sensor Probe and Humidity / Clock 00891W3 (http://www.acurite.com/weather/humidity/thermometer-with-wired-probe.html)

[ErikBush97]

He has the tank, and the snake, so a bunch of "I told you so" probably isnt going to help. There is nothing wrong with using glass, and its not at all difficult to adapt the lid.

To the OP, after what you have already bought, the only other thing you need to buy is another hide for the cool side. (the cave type hides are better than the half log style ones as they like it dark and tight during the day while they are sleeping) That way you have a hide on the hot and cool sides. You can simply cover the screen top with a piece of wood or plexiglass and that will solve your humidity and heating problems. If you are still having a problem with humidity, buy a live plant, like a pothos, and put the entire thing with the pot inside the tank. It will increase the humidity and also give more ground cover for your snake to feel secure.

Hey, man. Thanks for the reply, and for the info.
I have two hides, as suggested. And I'll definitely check out some plants. But one question; wouldn't putting plexi or wood over the screen displace the air, and eventually suffocate the snake?

[Mikoh4792]

Hey, man. Thanks for the reply, and for the info.
I have two hides, as suggested. And I'll definitely check out some plants. But one question; wouldn't putting plexi or wood over the screen displace the air, and eventually suffocate the snake?

You aren't supposed to cover the whole thing. just leave enough room for the heat lamp and if you aren't going to use your heat lamp at all then I would say 3/4 covered is fine. There still needs to be ventilation so covering the whole top would do no good. And if that didn't suffocate the snake, the air would still become stagnant, mold could grow...etc.

[ErikBush97]

You aren't supposed to cover the whole thing. just leave enough room for the heat lamp and if you aren't going to use your heat lamp at all then I would say 3/4 covered is fine. There still needs to be ventilation so covering the whole top would do no good. And if that didn't suffocate the snake, the air would still become stagnant, mold could grow...etc.

Thanks for the info, man. :)

[Mikoh4792]

Thanks for the info, man. :)

No problem. Let us know how everything works out.

By the way is the UTH hooked up to a thermostat?

[Terranaut]

IMHO ....You should return everything they sold you and complain that they sold you a setup for a corn not a python. Buy a rubbermade tub. If you want to see your snake use the plexi you would have put over your screen as a window in the side of the tub. Get a uth and a thermostat. This setup is cheap and far superior to where you are going with yours.


A little "I told you so" IS appropriate here. Next time listen to us...not some kid at petsmart who knows nothing. They sold you stuff that will actually harm your snake if used as they suggest and your going to keep it? No way I would. I am sorry if I am blunt but everything I told you was accurate and a glass tank with a light is not ok for a royal. Tge people who make it work have spent more on fixing it than they did on the original setup. The most important part of your enclosure is having a heat source on a thermostat anf the didn't sell you one?....and you goi g to modify their error as opposed to listening to royal keepers here? Come on man :(

[LadyWraith]

I agree 100% with Terranaut on this, just from personal experience. A fish tank is not really an efficient setup... I could NEVER keep humidity consistent, even with lid fixes etc. It took switching to a utility shelf, a 32 qt tub, and Flexwatt on a thermostat to achieve consistent temps and humidity. It's not fun having to mist this, cover that every day in the battle against low humidity.

[smy_749]

Keep the setup, put something appropriate in it. You most likely will wish you had it in the future, I always do. Put it to the side, and put the BP in a proper setup like that which was described here. Win win situation.

[Terranaut]

Keep the setup, put something appropriate in it. You most likely will wish you had it in the future, I always do. Put it to the side, and put the BP in a proper setup like that which was described here. Win win situation.

This is not a bad plan at all. You most likely will buy another snake. We all do ;) now if it is a colubrid your good to go. That set up is fine for 90% of them.

Seriously get a proper setup for a royal. Constant misting, respiratory infections and bad sheds will just be frustrating and not an enjoyable experience for you or your snake.
This is cheap but I would use reptibark or cypress

http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/1/2/1/2/8/hpim0476.jpg

[ErikBush97]

No problem. Let us know how everything works out.

By the way is the UTH hooked up to a thermostat?

No. I am watching the temps inside the cage, though. what do you mean "hooked up" to the UTH?

[ErikBush97]

IMHO ....You should return everything they sold you and complain that they sold you a setup for a corn not a python. Buy a rubbermade tub. If you want to see your snake use the plexi you would have put over your screen as a window in the side of the tub. Get a uth and a thermostat. This setup is cheap and far superior to where you are going with yours.


A little "I told you so" IS appropriate here. Next time listen to us...not some kid at petsmart who knows nothing. They sold you stuff that will actually harm your snake if used as they suggest and your going to keep it? No way I would. I am sorry if I am blunt but everything I told you was accurate and a glass tank with a light is not ok for a royal. Tge people who make it work have spent more on fixing it than they did on the original setup. The most important part of your enclosure is having a heat source on a thermostat anf the didn't sell you one?....and you goi g to modify their error as opposed to listening to royal keepers here? Come on man :(

Okay... It's getting pretty hard to keep up with everyone at this point.
Here's a setup update:
Glass Terrarium (Will change to a tub if needed)
One 5.0 UVB bulb (in fixture)
One UTH.
One side is 80-85 degrees, the other is 70-75.
Two hides
One water bowl
Some fake plants, one Pothos
According to the gauge, the humidity is fluctuating between 45-60% through out the day. And just one question, man. If I already have a terrarium, with correct heat/humidity, is it necessary to buy a tub? If you say yes, I will. It just doesn't really make sense. I'm not going to be stupid, and be like "Whatever!" if you say a tub is absolutely necessary, but I'd like to know why it is first.

[valid]

You plug your UTH into the Thermostat and it regulate temps for you. It is very difficult to maintain temperatures with out one, regardless how often you check. I had one break o me, as as I live is a very arid dry area the temps in my tank rose very quickly (not sure where you live) - it caused my snake a lot of stress and more harm than anything trying to regulate the temps until I could get a replacement. They not 'cheap' but pretty much a one time deal and 100% worth the fee (and necessary). It just makes life easier for every one.

[ErikBush97]

This is not a bad plan at all. You most likely will buy another snake. We all do ;) now if it is a colubrid your good to go. That set up is fine for 90% of them.

Seriously get a proper setup for a royal. Constant misting, respiratory infections and bad sheds will just be frustrating and not an enjoyable experience for you or your snake.
This is cheap but I would use reptibark or cypress

http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/1/2/1/2/8/hpim0476.jpg

I am using reptibark, and I am misting 3-5 times a day.
I made a video of his/her setup, because (for me) it's a lot harder to type every little detail and to show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcUpb9Emz_4

[ErikBush97]

You plug your UTH into the Thermostat and it regulate temps for you. It is very difficult to maintain temperatures with out one, regardless how often you check. I had one break o me, as as I live is a very arid dry area the temps in my tank rose very quickly (not sure where you live) - it caused my snake a lot of stress and more harm than anything trying to regulate the temps until I could get a replacement. They not 'cheap' but pretty much a one time deal and 100% worth the fee (and necessary). It just makes life easier for every one.
I live in Oregon (Pretty much always rainy and cold) so I don't think I'd have to worry about it getting THAT hot, but I'll invest in a thermostat just in case. Do they actually sell these kinds of thermostats at pet stores? Or is it a general use tool, that'd you'd get at like... a hardware store?

[valid]

This is probably your best bet
Amazon.com: Hydrofarm MTPRTC Digital Thermostat For Heat Mats: Patio, Lawn & Garden (http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPRTC-Digital-Thermostat-Heat/dp/B000NZZG3S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370325933&sr=8-1&keywords=hydrofarm+thermostat)

One of the cheapest, and very easy to use.

[ErikBush97]

This is probably your best bet
Amazon.com: Hydrofarm MTPRTC Digital Thermostat For Heat Mats: Patio, Lawn & Garden (http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPRTC-Digital-Thermostat-Heat/dp/B000NZZG3S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370325933&sr=8-1&keywords=hydrofarm+thermostat)

One of the cheapest, and very easy to use.

Awesome! Thanks, man!

[Mikoh4792]

Okay... It's getting pretty hard to keep up with everyone at this point.
Here's a setup update:
Glass Terrarium (Will change to a tub if needed)
One 5.0 UVB bulb (in fixture)
One UTH.
One side is 80-85 degrees, the other is 70-75.
Two hides
One water bowl
Some fake plants, one Pothos
According to the gauge, the humidity is fluctuating between 45-60% through out the day. And just one question, man. If I already have a terrarium, with correct heat/humidity, is it necessary to buy a tub? If you say yes, I will. It just doesn't really make sense. I'm not going to be stupid, and be like "Whatever!" if you say a tub is absolutely necessary, but I'd like to know why it is first.

It is not absolutely necessary. Tubs are easier to maintain for a ball pythom which makes them better. Easier is better in terms of keeping reptiles so you don't have to struggle in order to keep the right conditions for an animal. However, you can still make an ideal enclosure with a glass tank if you set it up properly.

70-75 is a bit on the cold side for a cool side. I would bump up the cool side a few degrees. I've gotten mixed reviews of 75 to 78 - 80-82 for a cool side.

80-85 should be the ambient air temperature around the general area.
I am not a ball python expert, but I actually have a collection of books from the past that I still read from time to time. They say you should still have a hotspot a little warmer of 88-95F. Some people say that they keep their ball pythons fine in 85-90F hotspots but 85 being the hottest seems to be inadequate. Maybe a successful ball python owner/breeder here can clarify this.


I live in Oregon (Pretty much always rainy and cold) so I don't think I'd have to worry about it getting THAT hot, but I'll invest in a thermostat just in case. Do they actually sell these kinds of thermostats at pet stores? Or is it a general use tool, that'd you'd get at like... a hardware store?

Someone already posted the hydrofarm thermostat which I also have but I've moved onto proportional thermostats since I've found they keep a more steady temperature. With on/off thermostats you'll see temperatures rising and dropping a bit more.


I think the only things you need to fix is a cover for the screen top and to add a thermostat. If it were me, I'd cover 3 sides of the tank and leave the front pane open for viewing. That's what I do for all my glass tanks and it helps to give your snake a bit of security.

[Terranaut]

And skip the UV light. Royals spend most of their time during the day in their hides so it is not needed. Like said above you can make a glass tank work but it is a pain where a tub or better yet if you budget allows get a real snake enclosure. If you surf a bit on here and read about people having shed issues with their royals you will see most if not all of them have glass enclosures with screen lids or modified screen lids. Again IMHO it is not worth the trouble when $25 will buy a great tub. Now if you have a couple hundred you could go tgis route and never worry about anything... ever
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/20130220_161602_zps2660fd3c.jpg

[Mikoh4792]

And skip the UV light. Royals spend most of their time during the day in their hides so it is not needed. Like said above you can make a glass tank work but it is a pain where a tub or better yet if you budget allows get a real snake enclosure. If you surf a bit on here and read about people having shed issues with their royals you will see most if not all of them have glass enclosures with screen lids or modified screen lids. Again IMHO it is not worth the trouble when $25 will buy a great tub. Now if you have a couple hundred you could go tgis route and never worry about anything... ever
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/20130220_161602_zps2660fd3c.jpg

Nice enclosures. What are you using to heat them? and what do you keep in the bottom enclosure to the left?

[Terranaut]

Some use rhps and some heat tape. The one on the left? The big one? I have a breeding pair of JCP's in there but when the season is over the male come out (like now)
I have a few of these style of enclosures (the pvc's in the center)
This is Dutch's 3x2x16"
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/20130413_155832_zps77b37edd.jpg

[Mikoh4792]

Some use rhps and some heat tape. The one on the left? The big one? I have a breeding pair of JCP's in there but when the season is over the male come out (like now)
I have a few of these style of enclosures (the pvc's in the center)
This is Dutch's 3x2x16"
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/20130413_155832_zps77b37edd.jpg

That's awesome. It looks like you made a custom frame on the vision cage.

Where do you place the probe for rhp's? Do you use it to control basking temps or to control ambient temperatures? Because right now in enclosures I use with overhead heat sources, I let the probe control ambient air temps and put the basking spot higher or lower under the heat source to get the desired temperature. Just curious to know different ways of using thermostats.

[Concept9]

Hey Terranaut. Did you get the enclosures on the left from Kevin ?

If so, how are they ?

[jarich]

And skip the UV light. Royals spend most of their time during the day in their hides so it is not needed. Like said above you can make a glass tank work but it is a pain where a tub or better yet if you budget allows get a real snake enclosure. If you surf a bit on here and read about people having shed issues with their royals you will see most if not all of them have glass enclosures with screen lids or modified screen lids. Again IMHO it is not worth the trouble when $25 will buy a great tub. Now if you have a couple hundred you could go tgis route and never worry about anything... ever


Im surprised we are still having this discussion on threads. It is the screen lid and not the glass tank that is often the problem. It cost me zero dollars to adapt my royal's fish tank to an enclosure that is both safe and completely perfect as regards all parameters for its environment (I already had the simple piece of plywood that was required). There is no pain involved, it holds humidity as well as any enclosure, heat better than any other type of enclosure, and is a more enriching environment than any tub ever will be. Ive never had a single shed issue, any kind of RI, or any other problem with the tank. Like you, I never have to worry about anything ever again.

As for the UVB, keep it in there. Studies have shown that they are healthier as a result of exposure to UVB light. You may not be able to see it, but their blood serum levels of Vit D metabolites are increased to normal levels when given access to UVB. Im not saying its essential for them to live and breed, but that studies of their blood chemistry show them to be healthier with access to UVB lighting.

[Mikoh4792]

I'm just theorizing and have no scientific credentials. That being said does keeping them dark all the time have some kind of negative effect on them? Even nocturnal snakes may come out during the day and experience seeing things in the light. Wouldn't adding a uvb light, whether or not snakes need the radiation, still be beneficial for creating a light cycle?

[Terranaut]

Im surprised we are still having this discussion on threads. It is the screen lid and not the glass tank that is often the problem. It cost me zero dollars to adapt my royal's fish tank to an enclosure that is both safe and completely perfect as regards all parameters for its environment (I already had the simple piece of plywood that was required). There is no pain involved, it holds humidity as well as any enclosure, heat better than any other type of enclosure, and is a more enriching environment than any tub ever will be. Ive never had a single shed issue, any kind of RI, or any other problem with the tank. Like you, I never have to worry about anything ever again.

As for the UVB, keep it in there. Studies have shown that they are healthier as a result of exposure to UVB light. You may not be able to see it, but their blood serum levels of Vit D metabolites are increased to normal levels when given access to UVB. Im not saying its essential for them to live and breed, but that studies of their blood chemistry show them to be healthier with access to UVB lighting.
I have a question for both you and the op. Where do you live. Ambient humidity plays a huge role in wether or not a top vented enclosure will work. I have no issues with glass at all although it is not a good insulator so I doubt it holds heat better than pvc or melmine. I would also love to see a link to this study. How much uvb was used? Where was the "normal" blood levels taken? Who funded it? Ect. I also do not like tubs and do not use them but I would rather see a snake in a viv suited for it's physical needs over one that does not but supports stimulation. Also when I say these enclosure are not proper I am generalizing as most people here with pythons in them do have issues. You are not the norm in this case.

[Aaron_S]

I have a question for both you and the op. Where do you live. Ambient humidity plays a huge role in wether or not a top vented enclosure will work. I have no issues with glass at all although it is not a good insulator so I doubt it holds heat better than pvc or melmine. I would also love to see a link to this study. How much uvb was used? Where was the "normal" blood levels taken? Who funded it? Ect. I also do not like tubs and do not use them but I would rather see a snake in a viv suited for it's physical needs over one that does not but supports stimulation. Also when I say these enclosure are not proper I am generalizing as most people here with pythons in them do have issues. You are not the norm in this case.

I believe it was Josh who posted the numbers for insulators and it is proven that glass is a really good one. So yes, you may be wrong in that part.

[Terranaut]

Really. Glass. Wow. If so then I stand corrected.

[brylecc1989]

I currently house a ball python about that size in a 20 gallon. I use one medium size UTH and literally just cover the screen top with a towel(this also hangs down the sides to give him a bit more privacy. Every week or so (more so when he is about to shed) I spray down his tank, damped his substrate (the exoterra coconut husk one that comes in rectangular blocks the name escapes me) and soak the towel so it kinda rains through the screen top for a while. Right after I do this humidity will be around 70%, and ill let it get down to about 45%-50% before I do it again. I've had him like this for 8 months and he sheds one piece everytime, eats, and poops. Essentially, if my snake needs higher humidity he can find it in his hides, especially the one above the UTH, because his substrate is damp. Same goes for the heat. If he wants more, he can lay in his hide right on top of the mat. If he wants to cool off, there's a hide on the other side of tank. Your temps and humidity don't have to be so constant if the snake has comfortable access to all the environmental requirements it may need in separate parts of the tank. Hope this helps dude. Although common, I love my normal BP he's so chill and quite curious once he gets relaxed. Enjoy him!!

[ErikBush97]

It is not absolutely necessary. Tubs are easier to maintain for a ball pythom which makes them better. Easier is better in terms of keeping reptiles so you don't have to struggle in order to keep the right conditions for an animal. However, you can still make an ideal enclosure with a glass tank if you set it up properly.

70-75 is a bit on the cold side for a cool side. I would bump up the cool side a few degrees. I've gotten mixed reviews of 75 to 78 - 80-82 for a cool side.

80-85 should be the ambient air temperature around the general area.
I am not a ball python expert, but I actually have a collection of books from the past that I still read from time to time. They say you should still have a hotspot a little warmer of 88-95F. Some people say that they keep their ball pythons fine in 85-90F hotspots but 85 being the hottest seems to be inadequate. Maybe a successful ball python owner/breeder here can clarify this.




Someone already posted the hydrofarm thermostat which I also have but I've moved onto proportional thermostats since I've found they keep a more steady temperature. With on/off thermostats you'll see temperatures rising and dropping a bit more.


I think the only things you need to fix is a cover for the screen top and to add a thermostat. If it were me, I'd cover 3 sides of the tank and leave the front pane open for viewing. That's what I do for all my glass tanks and it helps to give your snake a bit of security.

I dedicated today to fixing up the Python's enclosure.
I'll post a picture in this thread tomorrow. It's pretty nice. I covered 3/4 of the mesh lid, as suggested. That boosted the Humidity A LOT. (from 40-50% to 60-70%) the warm side of the terrarium is 85-90 degrees, the cooler side is still about 75 degrees. I don't really know how to get it up to 78-80 degrees as suggested, because a lamp, or UTH is going to put it at about 85 degrees.
I bought a Pothos the other day. will put it in the enclosure tomorrow (it's 10:33 PM... About to fall asleep). Today was the first day I actually handled the snake. I was actually surprised. Most people say BP's are slow and don't really move around a lot while being handled, but I swear that guy was more wiggly than my garter snake! Going to feed him on Saturday. That's when I feed Sas (My Garter). Anyways, good night, SsnakesS!

[ErikBush97]

I currently house a ball python about that size in a 20 gallon. I use one medium size UTH and literally just cover the screen top with a towel(this also hangs down the sides to give him a bit more privacy. Every week or so (more so when he is about to shed) I spray down his tank, damped his substrate (the exoterra coconut husk one that comes in rectangular blocks the name escapes me) and soak the towel so it kinda rains through the screen top for a while. Right after I do this humidity will be around 70%, and ill let it get down to about 45%-50% before I do it again. I've had him like this for 8 months and he sheds one piece everytime, eats, and poops. Essentially, if my snake needs higher humidity he can find it in his hides, especially the one above the UTH, because his substrate is damp. Same goes for the heat. If he wants more, he can lay in his hide right on top of the mat. If he wants to cool off, there's a hide on the other side of tank. Your temps and humidity don't have to be so constant if the snake has comfortable access to all the environmental requirements it may need in separate parts of the tank. Hope this helps dude. Although common, I love my normal BP he's so chill and quite curious once he gets relaxed. Enjoy him!!


Thanks for the reply, man. Have almost the same setup going. I perfected the Python's setup today, including covering 3/4 the mesh/screen lid with duck tape on the outside part of the lid, and damp paper towels, to help add humidity, on the inside of the lid.

[ErikBush97]

Honestly, I think with the way I have the tank set up, it'll be good for the snake. I think anyone saying it's a bad setup A. Thinks I covered the lid and called it good. or B. Is simply choosing their favorite enclosure, and saying it's the best option for my snake. Now, I will admit, there are things that still need to be done. I need to buy a better thermostat/hygrometer, and I still need to buy a thermostat for my UTH, etc. I will post a video, and some pictures tomorrow, and if you guys STILL think I need to change my setup/enclosure (along with an actual reason why my enclosure isn't good enough) I will gladly switch to the enclosure AND setup of your liking.

[Mikoh4792]

I dedicated today to fixing up the Python's enclosure.
I'll post a picture in this thread tomorrow. It's pretty nice. I covered 3/4 of the mesh lid, as suggested. That boosted the Humidity A LOT. (from 40-50% to 60-70%) the warm side of the terrarium is 85-90 degrees, the cooler side is still about 75 degrees. I don't really know how to get it up to 78-80 degrees as suggested, because a lamp, or UTH is going to put it at about 85 degrees.
I bought a Pothos the other day. will put it in the enclosure tomorrow (it's 10:33 PM... About to fall asleep). Today was the first day I actually handled the snake. I was actually surprised. Most people say BP's are slow and don't really move around a lot while being handled, but I swear that guy was more wiggly than my garter snake! Going to feed him on Saturday. That's when I feed Sas (My Garter). Anyways, good night, SsnakesS!

75 should be fine, as long as your snake has somewhere to go to get warm. Temperatures will fluctuate slightly on warmer and colder days so sometimes your cold slide will be 75 and other times your cold side will be "x".

EDIT: by the way if you are worried that your cold side is too cold you could always bump up the temperature on your warm side since it gets to 85-90F. If you make it a little hotter your cold side should get a little warmer as well.

[jarich]

I have a question for both you and the op. Where do you live. Ambient humidity plays a huge role in wether or not a top vented enclosure will work. I have no issues with glass at all although it is not a good insulator so I doubt it holds heat better than pvc or melmine. I would also love to see a link to this study. How much uvb was used? Where was the "normal" blood levels taken? Who funded it? Ect. I also do not like tubs and do not use them but I would rather see a snake in a viv suited for it's physical needs over one that does not but supports stimulation. Also when I say these enclosure are not proper I am generalizing as most people here with pythons in them do have issues. You are not the norm in this case.

Hey man, I live in NYC so while its pretty humid outside in the summer months, the use of AC and heat in the winter keeps the rh pretty low inside. As Aaron mentioned, glass is actually a great insulator, pretty much the best one you can use with any common building materials. As far as the study goes, Ill try to dig it up in the next day or two. It used wild caught specimens as the control group, since they have access to sunlight. Not sure who funded it, it was a scientific paper so odds are some grant.

I understand what you are saying, in that people shouldnt just buy a screen top and think that is going to work. But the lid is easily adaptable, and for the sake of a simple piece of wood I think the benefits outweigh any hassle.

To the OP, I would guess that if you switch that lid out with a piece of plywood cut to the exact measurements of your top, with just a small vent, you will find your cool end temps will bump up to the place you want them to be. (you can use a polyurethane stain to both seal the wood against humidity and also make it look nice) Just that little bit of extra insulation the wood will give you on the top of the enclosure will add a couple degrees overall. Will hold up a little better over time versus the tape and paper towel method too. Anything that makes your life easier regarding husbandry is a good thing.

[ErikBush97]

I have a question for both you and the op. Where do you live. Ambient humidity plays a huge role in wether or not a top vented enclosure will work. I have no issues with glass at all although it is not a good insulator so I doubt it holds heat better than pvc or melmine. I would also love to see a link to this study. How much uvb was used? Where was the "normal" blood levels taken? Who funded it? Ect. I also do not like tubs and do not use them but I would rather see a snake in a viv suited for it's physical needs over one that does not but supports stimulation. Also when I say these enclosure are not proper I am generalizing as most people here with pythons in them do have issues. You are not the norm in this case.

I live in Oregon.

[ErikBush97]

Lets see the setup and give a list of what you bought.
Hard to help without it.
Hey, Terranaut. I know you were pretty upset about the enclosure I went with, so... I'd like you to check out my newest thread. It includes a video of my snakes enclosure, so if you see flaws, please point them out. Just want you to see that a terrarium CAN be a great enclosure, if you make it great. The thread will be up in about 30 minutes or so.

[Terranaut]

I just don't like those for the snake you put in it. Not just because it's glass or anything. In a year I think you will see that it may not be the best option or has been a pain to keep the humidity right.

[ErikBush97]

I just don't like those for the snake you put in it. Not just because it's glass or anything. In a year I think you will see that it may not be the best option or has been a pain to keep the humidity right.

Honestly... Humidity is actually staying about the same, and is SUPER EASY to maintain. Perhaps it's because of my particular set up. Humidity will stay at 50-60% for about 6-7 hours, before I have to mist the cage, and at that point it's at about 40%. The video I made is taking forever to upload, but honestly, You know what you're doing, and if you see my enclosure, I think you'd agree that it's perfect for a Ball. Perhaps tubs are better, but glass is not BAD (in my case, at least).

[smy_749]

Hi , 6-7 hours is horrible imo. I mist my GTPs cage so he can drink off the glass and to water plants , but if I dont mist even for 7-9 days the humidity doesnt reach 40%. Granted I have live plants, and a snake requiring higher levels, but 6-7 hours before misting is no bueno.

[ErikBush97]

Hi , 6-7 hours is horrible imo. I mist my GTPs cage so he can drink off the glass and to water plants , but if I dont mist even for 7-9 days the humidity doesnt reach 40%. Granted I have live plants, and a snake requiring higher levels, but 6-7 hours before misting is no bueno.

7-9 days?! MUST.. SEE... YOUR... SETUP! 0.0

[Valvaren]

I never have to mist my tubs, ever. Humidity stays perfect. I've never had a bad shed and all I do is move the water bowl closer to the warm side during sheds.

Only ones I ever have to mist are my BRBs and thats not often at all.

[Terranaut]

I mist my royal cage once a week. Humidity going up and down is not good foe the snake at all. Glass is not bad....the huge screen top is.

[ErikBush97]

I mist my royal cage once a week. Humidity going up and down is not good foe the snake at all. Glass is not bad....the huge screen top is.

If you guys are misting once a week, I will admit that I was wrong. My enclosure sucks compared to yours!

[Terranaut]

The enclosure is fine....just not for a ball python.
A king or well most colubrids I guess would be fine in a screen top terrarium. Not only do royals need a bit more humidity but it has also got to be constant and not spike to 90% for a bit only to fall back to 40% a few hours later is almost as bad as just low all the time. The right enclosure makes all the difference.

[LadyWraith]

Yea, no misting required here either with a tub setup. Just had a perfect shed. Literally maintenance free minus cleaning day.

[Mikoh4792]

Yea, no misting required here either with a tub setup. Just had a perfect shed. Literally maintenance free minus cleaning day.

I have to mist my glass enclosures with screen top once a week. The exo terra ones have middle ventilation holes and a small chink between the glass doors and still hold in humidity great.

It really depends on where you live and how you cover your screen top.

[smy_749]

Only once a week with a screen top ?

[Valvaren]

Honestly tubs might not be much to look at but my snakes don't seem to care and I don't have to worried about them because the tubs keep everything perfectly. I would love to have everyone in nice big display type enclosures and someday I will, but for now this works, its safe so my vote is with tubs.

[Mikoh4792]

Only once a week with a screen top ?

yeah because the whole thing is basically covered with hoods lol, so it's a pseudo-screen top. It doesn't restrict circulation/ventilation on the exo-terras since there is always space between the doors and the exo terra vents near the bottom sides of the enclosures. Combining that with substrate like mulch or cocohusk the humidity will never drop below 40%. When I mist the cage it bumps up to 70% and drops to 40% by the end of the week.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2wddd0g.jpg


EDIT: To the OP, you could also throw in some peat moss in there too, which I do. It helps with the humidity.

[ErikBush97]

yeah because the whole thing is basically covered with hoods lol, so it's a pseudo-screen top. It doesn't restrict circulation/ventilation on the exo-terras since there is always space between the doors and the exo terra vents near the bottom sides of the enclosures. Combining that with substrate like mulch or cocohusk the humidity will never drop below 40%. When I mist the cage it bumps up to 70% and drops to 40% by the end of the week.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2wddd0g.jpg


EDIT: To the OP, you could also throw in some peat moss in there too, which I do. It helps with the humidity.

Do you have a link or a name to that terrarium? Id really love to check one out!

[Mikoh4792]

Do you have a link or a name to that terrarium? Id really love to check one out!

I would really recommend one. These things take glass tanks to another level. With their front opening doors you don't have to remove the screen top and all the lamps to get inside the enclosure. No hassle. They also come in different shapes and sizes(cubes, long, tall..etc). And as shown above you can completely cover the whole top with hoods for lighting/heating.(If you are going to heat the enclosure buy the zoo med compact hood, not the exo terra hood. The zoo med hood can use up to 60 watt bulbs, while the exo terra hood can only use bulbs that are 26 watts or less. In the picture above, I have one exo terra hood for lighting in the front, and one zoo med hood in the back for heat which I hooked up to a thermostat). If you are going bigger than 12 inch long exo terra terrariums you can just use mini domes. The 12 inch screen tops have this divider that makes domes too big to fit.

You can buy one from your local petco or petsmart, or you can order them from amazon.com, exo-terra retailers, kingsnake/fauna classifieds...etc. Just google "exo-terra terrarium" on google and you will find many places to buy them from.

Good luck.

[ErikBush97]

I would really recommend one. These things take glass tanks to another level. With their front opening doors you don't have to remove the screen top and all the lamps to get inside the enclosure. No hassle. They also come in different shapes and sizes(cubes, long, tall..etc). And as shown above you can completely cover the whole top with hoods for lighting/heating.(If you are going to heat the enclosure buy the zoo med compact hood, not the exo terra hood. The zoo med hood can use up to 60 watt bulbs, while the exo terra hood can only use bulbs that are 26 watts or less. In the picture above, I have one exo terra hood for lighting in the front, and one zoo med hood in the back for heat which I hooked up to a thermostat). If you are going bigger than 12 inch long exo terra terrariums you can just use mini domes. The 12 inch screen tops have this divider that makes domes too big to fit.

You can buy one from your local petco or petsmart, or you can order them from amazon.com, exo-terra retailers, kingsnake/fauna classifieds...etc. Just google "exo-terra terrarium" on google and you will find many places to buy them from.

Good luck.

Thanks, man! :)

[smy_749]

Thanks, man! :)

Go with animal plastics, boaphile, visions, something along those lines. Every one of these is expensive, and I think the AP/Boaphiles are cheaper than exoterras of equivalent sizes. And they can be taken apart, aren't made with screen, and light weight pvc. You can pick up used ones at local reptile shows too.

[Terranaut]

Go with animal plastics, boaphile, visions, something along those lines. Every one of these is expensive, and I think the AP/Boaphiles are cheaper than exoterras of equivalent sizes. And they can be taken apart, aren't made with screen, and light weight pvc. You can pick up used ones at local reptile shows too.

These exoterra tanks (I also have one) get expensive when you get the bigger ones. Seriously go back to the first few posts in this thread and stary again before you throw a heap more cash at stuff that is not as good. Get a real snake cage as listed in the quote. You will be so glad you did.

[smy_749]

These exoterra tanks (I also have one) get expensive when you get the bigger ones. Seriously go back to the first few posts in this thread and stary again before you throw a heap more cash at stuff that is not as good. Get a real snake cage as listed in the quote. You will be so glad you did.

They also get flimsy as you get the larger models. They don't do anything to add extra reinforcement to the flimsy frame. That being said, I do think the small ones are great for small frogs/ chulas / small geckos etc.

[Mikoh4792]

These exoterra tanks (I also have one) get expensive when you get the bigger ones. Seriously go back to the first few posts in this thread and stary again before you throw a heap more cash at stuff that is not as good. Get a real snake cage as listed in the quote. You will be so glad you did.


It can be as good. As long as you cover the screen top of any exo-terra you can use it as efficiently as those plastic cages. Although I will admit they get expensive once you start going big.

[smy_749]

It can be as good. As long as you cover the screen top of any exo-terra you can use it as efficiently as those plastic cages. Although I will admit they get expensive once you start going big.

I personally think the plastic is better. Because like I said, they come apart. They aren't glass so they wont shatter if you drop em. You don't need a home made top. They have only front viewing windows, providing added security from the other sides. Much lighter weight. And most importantly, cheaper. Oh, and not that you would do it with a big moni cage, but the PVC cages are usually stackable which is convenient, especially for those of us who have OCD and like things to look very organized and uniform.

And you can easily screw shelving or branches into the sides of them.

[Mikoh4792]

I personally think the plastic is better. Because like I said, they come apart. They aren't glass so they wont shatter if you drop em. You don't need a home made top. They have only front viewing windows, providing added security from the other sides. Much lighter weight. And most importantly, cheaper. Oh, and not that you would do it with a big moni cage, but the PVC cages are usually stackable which is convenient, especially for those of us who have OCD and like things to look very organized and uniform.

And you can easily screw shelving or branches into the sides of them.

In that case plastic is better for you and others who prefer plastic. It's personal preference. Looking at it objectively, if i can create the right conditions inside an exo-terra enclosure for my snakes I don't see why it's "less" than the plastic cages. I am not constantly moving my cages around so I don't have to worry about them shattering. I also don't care for the weight as I'm not so scrawny it would break my back to carry a glass tank the size of a 40 gallon breeder. I also don't need to take my cages apart.

I agree with you on the stacking abilities of the plastic cages, which is why I will be moving all my snakes to either animal plastic or pvc enclosures when they get older.

It comes down to what's best for you. Right now, I like my exo terra's because they work fine.

A side note, I can give my snakes as much added security as a plastic cage. I just cover the three sides with adhesive chalk-board paper neatly.

http://i40.tinypic.com/jzxuu9.jpg

[Terranaut]

It can be as good. As long as you cover the screen top of any exo-terra you can use it as efficiently as those plastic cages. Although I will admit they get expensive once you start going big.

Once you get into the bigger exoterras the cost makes plastic "better" hands down. Even if they are exactly the same price the exoterra still needs modification to hold humidity so why wouldanyone bother buying one? Why not get something designed with humidity in mind?

[Mikoh4792]

Once you get into the bigger exoterras the cost makes plastic "better" hands down. Even if they are exactly the same price the exoterra still needs modification to hold humidity so why wouldanyone bother buying one? Why not get something designed with humidity in mind?

I agree with you on this. For snakes that require cages longer than 3ft I like using plastic enclosures, I'm just trying to argue that glass enclosures can be just as good. I don't really care if I have to make modifications or not. I like modifying things to fit their needs. Is it really hard to get cut plexi glass and place it on the screen top you will probably never touch since there are front opening doors? And with the smaller models you don't need to cover the screen with home-made items. You just put your heat source over it and the whole screen top is covered.

[smy_749]

I can modify a automobile or a cardboard box to be an adequate enclosure too, depends on how far we are willing to take that argument. But if you like the exoterra stuff and want to modify them, go for it. They look great on the black stands with overhead lighting and make good paludariums too. When I was referring to flimsyness and weight issues, I was referring to the 36 x 24 x 36 or whichever one had 3 x 3 ft arboreal orientation. Its a very heavy, flimsy akward tank. Unless your the illegimate child of mr. fantastic and rodney coleman, you prob wont lift it alone :-P

[Mikoh4792]

I can modify a automobile or a cardboard box to be an adequate enclosure too, depends on how far we are willing to take that argument. But if you like the exoterra stuff and want to modify them, go for it. They look great on the black stands with overhead lighting and make good paludariums too. When I was referring to flimsyness and weight issues, I was referring to the 36 x 24 x 36 or whichever one had 3 x 3 ft arboreal orientation. Its a very heavy, flimsy akward tank. Unless your the illegimate child of mr. fantastic and rodney coleman, you prob wont lift it alone :-P

If you can modify an automobile or a cardboard box to be an adequate enclosure, I don't see how this furthers your argument. If you can do that then go for it, it has nothing to do with how far I'll take the argument.

3x3 glass isn't hard to lift...

[smy_749]

3x3 front, and back, and 2 x 3 bottom, and 3x 2 sides. Its heavy and Is really alward to lift, especially on an enclosure that can barely support its own weight. Give it a try and let me know. Also , your saying that exoterras make great enclosures if you do a b c. Well so do regular tanks, with a b c d, and a bathroom, with a b c d e f etc. etc. My point is you can modify anything to be good, its just how much trouble and time are you willing to put, and when does it become not worth it anymore?

[Mikoh4792]

3x3 front, and back, and 2 x 3 bottom, and 3x 2 sides. Its heavy and Is really alward to lift, especially on an enclosure that can barely support its own weight. Give it a try and let me know. Also , your saying that exoterras make great enclosures if you do a b c. Well so do regular tanks, with a b c d, and a bathroom, with a b c d e f etc. etc. My point is you can modify anything to be good, its just how much trouble and time are you willing to put, and when does it become not worth it anymore?

To be honest, I think you are the one taking this argument too far. I haven't strayed beyond comparing glass tanks to plastic enclosures while you are going off about bathrooms and automobiles.

It isn't that much trouble actually to "modify" a glass tank or enclosure for it to work properly. I've posted this before, but the only modifications I am using right now are covering the 3 sides. Nothing else. I cover the screen tops with lighting/heating instruments and don't use plexi-glass..etc. No trouble, no hassle and I only have to mist once a week.