Anyone here have experience with dwarf boa regurgitation??

[Mikoh4792]

My caulker cay boa ate a pinkie rat two days ago and just regurgitated today. Shes about 13 inches long. I don't know the age on her. She is captive bred. The previous owner did tell me that his clutch of dwarf boas regurgitate sometimes. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of behavior? She came to me in pretty bad shape(I think). She is skinny and has folds of skin so she is obviously underfed, or if properly fed, she has been regurgitating a few of her meals every now and then. Here are some pics of her. You can tell shes not up to standards in terms of weight.

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a594/mikoh4792/20130601_073236_zps8388235b.jpgp

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a594/mikoh4792/20130601_071335_zps73c09691.jpg

I know pics may not show up, I will fix this issue in a bit

[lady_bug87]

What are her temperatures and humidity like? How often are you attempting to feed her and how many consecutive meals has she regured? Also what are you feeding her?

If the regurges are not consecutive, how often does she puke it up? How long after she eats does it come up? How digested is it?

[Mikoh4792]

What are her temperatures and humidity like? How often are you attempting to feed her and how many consecutive meals has she regured? Also what are you feeding her?

If the regurges are not consecutive, how often does she puke it up? How long after she eats does it come up? How digested is it?

I keep her in an aboreal enclosure. 12x12x18. So the thermal gradient goes from top to bottom. At the top basking side(which is a perch) it is 90-92F. There is a second level below the perch and around there it is around 85 degrees. At the bottom there are hides and inside those hides are around 75-80 depending on the time of day. Humidity is kept above 50% and below 70%.

I actually had her for a little over a week, so that would have been the first time I tried feeding her. I fed her a rat pinkie, which left a small bulge but nothing too big. Was about 1.5x the thickest part of her body. She puked it up after 2 days of eating it.

[Mikoh4792]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2l553r.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/j5f59w.jpg

[Aaron_S]

I keep her in an aboreal enclosure. 12x12x18. So the thermal gradient goes from top to bottom. At the top basking side(which is a perch) it is 90-92F. There is a second level below the perch and around there it is around 85 degrees. At the bottom there are hides and inside those hides are around 75-80 depending on the time of day. Humidity is kept above 50% and below 70%.

I actually had her for a little over a week, so that would have been the first time I tried feeding her. I fed her a rat pinkie, which left a small bulge but nothing too big. Was about 1.5x the thickest part of her body. She puked it up after 2 days of eating it.

Why is she in an arboreal set up?

Right there is your problem. She's not getting warm enough to digest her meal. She's a terrestrial species.

Fix that...all will be better.

[Mikoh4792]

Why is she in an arboreal set up?

Right there is your problem. She's not getting warm enough to digest her meal. She's a terrestrial species.

Fix that...all will be better.

I may do that, but from what I have researched they are more aboreal than the mainland bci. I also see her perched during the night and hiding out during the day. Since I keep an infrared light I leave it on during the night so she goes up to bask.

[lady_bug87]

I think its worth a shot. Pick up a tub with a lot of floor space add a heat mat and maybe some perches and see if that helps.

[Mikoh4792]

I think its worth a shot. Pick up a tub with a lot of floor space add a heat mat and maybe some perches and see if that helps.

I will keep her in that enclosure for a week or two to check on her behavior, and then try feeding her a smaller meal at the end. If she continues to go up to perch at night to bask then I will assume that the arboreal vs terrestrial setup isn't the problem, and that it may be parasite/disease. If that's the case I will need to take her to a vet. However, if I see that she doesn't climb to bask(although I'm almost sure cay caulkers are semi-arboreal from research and what I have seen in the past week from keeping her) then I will get her a tub with floor-space based dimensions and see how that works.

[Mikoh4792]

Why is she in an arboreal set up?

Right there is your problem. She's not getting warm enough to digest her meal. She's a terrestrial species.

Fix that...all will be better.

I forgot to ask in my previous post in response to yours. Do you have any proof that Cay Caulker BCI are a terrestrial species? If you can confirm that point it would help me a lot by letting me skip the 2 week observing period I have planned and go right ahead to getting her in an enclosure with more floor space and less height.

[lady_bug87]

If you offer BCIs climbing room they will use it. Some will anyways. It is universally accepted to keep BCI species in predominately terrestrial enclosures

[Aaron_S]

I forgot to ask in my previous post in response to yours. Do you have any proof that Cay Caulker BCI are a terrestrial species? If you can confirm that point it would help me a lot by letting me skip the 2 week observing period I have planned and go right ahead to getting her in an enclosure with more floor space and less height.

From your research you state that they are "more arboreal than the mainland" but that doesn't make them a true arboreal species! Just means they will use branches or whatever more often.

Note the difference between how your animal sits and how a true tree boa, such as the emerald tree boa sits. They are not active snakes usually the arboreal boas.

Lady_Bug is right.

Trust me. It's your set up. The heating isn't working right.

I highly doubt it'll be from parasites if it's from a breeder as you state.

[lady_bug87]

Aaron makes a really good point. Here is picture of my green tree python. Note the difference between her and your BCI

[Mikoh4792]

Aaron makes a really good point. Here is picture of my green tree python. Note the difference between her and your BCI

Actually my boa was perched just like that the night before. Very nice looking green tree python.

[Mikoh4792]

From your research you state that they are "more arboreal than the mainland" but that doesn't make them a true arboreal species! Just means they will use branches or whatever more often.

Note the difference between how your animal sits and how a true tree boa, such as the emerald tree boa sits. They are not active snakes usually the arboreal boas.

Lady_Bug is right.

Trust me. It's your set up. The heating isn't working right.

I highly doubt it'll be from parasites if it's from a breeder as you state.

Sorry, I never meant to make it seem as though I was trying to promote the idea that Cay Caulkers were an arboreal species. I don't know why you took it like that.

If the boa does go up to perch and bask, and at the right temperatures, could you tell me how the heating isn't working right?

[lady_bug87]

I would bet she isn't like that 100% of the time. tree boas spend the majority of the time perching

Perching doesn't make her arboreal most species will do so on occasion. However I would offer an environment where the snake can do both. If you choose to do so you may find the issues disappear

[Mikoh4792]

I would bet she isn't like that 100% of the time. tree boas spend the majority of the time perching

Perching doesn't make her arboreal most species will do so on occasion. However I would offer an environment where the snake can do both. If you choose to do so you may find the issues disappear

Of course she isn't like that 100% of the time. If you read the post just above yours you will see that I don't mean to call them an arboreal species. However being semi-arboreal, or at least more arboreal then it's bigger counter parts, it doesn't hurt the snake to climb up and rest on a higher level to bask.

Most of the time my snake basks up top, she isn't always "perched" like that green tree python or even in the pic of my own. She just coils up and rests there, and after soaking up the heat she moves down. If she is thermoregulating herself this way, what is the problem?(not with the regurgitation, but more so with the setup I have)

[Aaron_S]

Sorry, I never meant to make it seem as though I was trying to promote the idea that Cay Caulkers were an arboreal species. I don't know why you took it like that.

If the boa does go up to perch and bask, and at the right temperatures, could you tell me how the heating isn't working right?

Your snake couldn't digest it's meal. Proof it isn't working right. BCI's, all of them, are pretty hardy eaters. You shouldn't be dealing with issues.

Don't use only parts of your own discussion to try to prove your point.

Also, you did try to say they arboreal. You keep it like you would an arboreal species so I don't see how I'm mistaking anything you say. You're the one who said and did it.

[Aaron_S]

Of course she isn't like that 100% of the time. If you read the post just above yours you will see that I don't mean to call them an arboreal species. However being semi-arboreal, or at least more arboreal then it's bigger counter parts, it doesn't hurt the snake to climb up and rest on a higher level to bask.

Most of the time my snake basks up top, she isn't always "perched" like that green tree python or even in the pic of my own. She just coils up and rests there, and after soaking up the heat she moves down. If she is thermoregulating herself this way, what is the problem?(not with the regurgitation, but more so with the setup I have)

So semi-arboreal now? That's what you've gone with? You've taken semi-arboreal and say "hmm...let's take an arboreal enclosure and use that then!" Brilliant.

Semi-arboreal means just use proper height, 6 - 12 inches and place branches in there with the thermoregulation going width and not height. It ISN'T a true arboreal species so height is moot.

The problem with your set up is that IT'S NOT WORKING. Why keep shoving a triangle into a cube hole? It boggles my mind. You've made a mistake and instead of admitting it and correcting it, you're trying to find any other reason for the issue.

I'd suggest giving the snake another way to bask and see which one it chooses. Currently, you've only given it one option and I think that's why you see it as okay...it has to use it or die.

[lady_bug87]

Look, keep it however you want. You asked a question, we answered it. No matter how many times you argue your point it's not going to make it any less wrong.

How do I know its wrong? If it were right she wouldn't upchuck a small meal.

[Mikoh4792]

Your snake couldn't digest it's meal. Proof it isn't working right. BCI's, all of them, are pretty hardy eaters. You shouldn't be dealing with issues.

Don't use only parts of your own discussion to try to prove your point.

Also, you did try to say they arboreal. You keep it like you would an arboreal species so I don't see how I'm mistaking anything you say. You're the one who said and did it.

The previous owner did tell me his caulker cay boas were regurgitating so the problem doesn't stem from me. It starts from somewhere else.

So semi-arboreal now? That's what you've gone with? You've taken semi-arboreal and say "hmm...let's take an arboreal enclosure and use that then!" Brilliant.

Semi-arboreal means just use proper height, 6 - 12 inches and place branches in there with the thermoregulation going width and not height. It ISN'T a true arboreal species so height is moot.

The problem with your set up is that IT'S NOT WORKING. Why keep shoving a triangle into a cube hole? It boggles my mind. You've made a mistake and instead of admitting it and correcting it, you're trying to find any other reason for the issue.

I'd suggest giving the snake another way to bask and see which one it chooses. Currently, you've only given it one option and I think that's why you see it as okay...it has to use it or die.

Same with any set up. The snake has to use a hotspot or die.

Could you just answer this simple question?

- If my boa is thermoregulating herself, and the temperatures are proper, what is wrong with my enclosure? You say that she is not getting warm enough for food when clearly she is. She goes to bask, where it is 90+ degrees Fahrenheit.

I think you are the one using parts of their own discussion, not me. I have clearly stated time and time again that she gets warm and cool enough.

In your mind I have made a mistake. If you can tell me, after properly reading my posts and seeing that my snake gets the proper temperatures, what the problem is with my setup, I will admit to being incorrect. But please don't make it seem like I am forcing an argument beyond rationale. You just haven't proven me wrong yet.

[Mikoh4792]

Look, keep it however you want. You asked a question, we answered it. No matter how many times you argue your point it's not going to make it any less wrong.

How do I know its wrong? If it were right she wouldn't upchuck a small meal.

Please read the post above, the problem doesn't stem from me. This particular boa along with the rest of the clutch has been regurgitating with the previous owner, who has been keeping them in a rack system with belly heat.

[Aaron_S]

The previous owner did tell me his caulker cay boas were regurgitating so the problem doesn't stem from me. It starts from somewhere else.



Same with any set up. The snake has to use a hotspot or die.

Could you just answer this simple question?

- If my boa is thermoregulating herself, and the temperatures proper, what is wrong with my enclosure? You say that she is not getting warm enough for food when clearly she is. She goes to bask, where it is 90+ degrees Fahrenheit.

I think you are the one using parts of their own discussion, not me. I have clearly stated time and time again that she gets warm and cool enough.

In your mind I have made a mistake. If you can tell me, after properly reading my posts and seeing that my snake gets the proper temperatures, what the problem is with my setup, I will admit to being incorrect. But please don't make it seem like I am forcing an argument beyond rational. You just haven't proven me wrong yet.

Maybe he's not keeping them right as well. Ever think of that? Snakes don't just regurge due to no reason.

Secondly, I thought it might all be parasites and disease. Parasites don't come from CBB animals. You don't know much.

How do you KNOW it's getting the right warmth when it's CLEARLY not due to it's lack of digestion. Have you checked the temps with a different instrument to see if yours is off yet? No? Thought so.

Your ANIMAL is telling you that it's set-up is wrong. Just because YOU see it as right doesn't make it so. You're not the one living in it or trying to eat in it, are you?

You've been told twice now an answer to the question you've asked. We've said why we believe it to be so. Either try it out or shut up. Go to the vet, spend all your money to find out it's nothing. Good luck.

[Aaron_S]

Please read the post above, the problem doesn't stem from me. This particular boa along with the rest of the clutch has been regurgitating with the previous owner, who has been keeping them in a rack system with belly heat.

I wouldn't be taking my advice from someone who has this recurring issue. Obviously something else is wrong.

Oh and they also sold you what looks like it may be a dehydrated snake. It doesn't take effort to keep them well hydrated.

[lady_bug87]

Please read the post above, the problem doesn't stem from me. This particular boa along with the rest of the clutch has been regurgitating with the previous owner, who has been keeping them in a rack system with belly heat.

One last question...

Why the heck would you even consider buying an animal that had regurge issues in the first place?

[SnakeyJay]

One last question...

Why the heck would you even consider buying an animal that had regurge issues in the first place?

I've been thinking this since the start.. I know I definately wouldn't have!

[Aaron_S]

One last question...

Why the heck would you even consider buying an animal that had regurge issues in the first place?

Oooo...good question...

HIGH FIVE!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/godzilla99/barney-stinson_zpsb84c5b1a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/godzilla99/media/barney-stinson_zpsb84c5b1a.jpg.html)

[Mikoh4792]

Maybe he's not keeping them right as well. Ever think of that? Snakes don't just regurge due to no reason.

Secondly, I thought it might all be parasites and disease. Parasites don't come from CBB animals. You don't know much.

How do you KNOW it's getting the right warmth when it's CLEARLY not due to it's lack of digestion. Have you checked the temps with a different instrument to see if yours is off yet? No? Thought so.

Your ANIMAL is telling you that it's set-up is wrong. Just because YOU see it as right doesn't make it so. You're not the one living in it or trying to eat in it, are you?

You've been told twice now an answer to the question you've asked. We've said why we believe it to be so. Either try it out or shut up. Go to the vet, spend all your money to find out it's nothing. Good luck.

You are making assumptions that are too large now. Parasites and diseases can be transferred from wild caught animals to captive bred animals, when breeders or keepers keep them in close proximity.

Also, I do keep many instruments for checking temperatures. I have two thermometer/hydrometers in the bottom of the cage, two digital stick on thermometers/hydrometers stuck onto the middle walls of the cage, and I also have two different brands of infrared guns to check temperatures at various spots of the enclosure.

I feel you are bitter towards me because I am not taking your advice. However I did mention earlier on that I would give it two weeks to confirm for myself whether or not she would keep using the arboreal type setup to go up and bask, and crawl down to cool before taking your advice. This shows I am open to help and willing to follow advice.

One thing I should have mentioned before. The previous owner was also powerfeeding it before it being sold to me. He told me that a few weeks before I bought the animal, he would try to feed it every 3 days to bulk up..

[Mikoh4792]

One last question...

Why the heck would you even consider buying an animal that had regurge issues in the first place?

I did not know prior to the purchase. I contacted the owner when it first arrived because I was worried at how underfed/skinny it looked. This is when he told me about the snake's problems.

[Mikoh4792]

I wouldn't be taking my advice from someone who has this recurring issue. Obviously something else is wrong.

Oh and they also sold you what looks like it may be a dehydrated snake. It doesn't take effort to keep them well hydrated.

Yeah I know. For a week now I've been keeping her humidity up and changing her water bowl every morning. She should become hydrated if she ever was dehydrated. I never took his advice though...don't know where you got that.

[Aaron_S]

You are making assumptions that are too large now. Parasites and diseases can be transferred from wild caught animals to captive bred animals, when breeders or keepers keep them in close proximity.

Also, I do keep many instruments for checking temperatures. I have two thermometer/hydrometers in the bottom of the cage, two digital stick on thermometers/hydrometers stuck onto the middle walls of the cage, and I also have two different brands of infrared guns to check temperatures at various spots of the enclosure.

I feel you are bitter towards me because I am not taking your advice. However I did mention earlier on that I would give it two weeks to confirm for myself whether or not she would keep using the arboreal type setup to go up and bask, and crawl down to cool before taking your advice. This shows I am open to help and willing to follow advice.

One thing I should have mentioned before. The previous owner was also powerfeeding it before being sold to me. He told me a few weeks before I bought the animal, he would try to feed it every 3 days to bulk up..

The bold...the second red flag on why I wouldn't buy or listen to this person. Who doesn't quarantine? Secondly, it would have to be some disgusting set up for cross contamination. Internal parasites don't just up and walk away...

The italics...why do you keep two at the bottom and middle of the cage and none at the top where she apparently spends most of her time? She doesn't bask in the middle.

The underline...you've given this animal ONLY one choice to bask. She will continue to do so because without she'll die. It doesn't make it optimal. That's like putting it in a glass bowl full of water and saying it "loves to swim all the time".

I'm not bitter about anything. I'm frustrated because people like you come here because you believe we know a better solution than you can come up with on your own so you ask a question. You get answers and because they don't match up with YOUR ideas you put them off and criticize them. It's fine to ask for further detail but not a person has come to say myself or Lady_bug is wrong so it should say something.


So now because you don't want to admit to things being your mistake since you're dead set on the arboreal set up because you think it's best you're now saying that due to it eating on a better schedule it would regurge?

[Aaron_S]

Yeah I know. For a week now I've been keeping her humidity up and changing her water bowl every morning. She should become hydrated if she ever was dehydrated. I never took his advice though...don't know where you got that.

You keep referring to him to defend your actions!!! Where else would I infer such a notion?!

Noobs...

[lady_bug87]

I did not know prior to the purchase. I contacted the owner when it first arrived because I was worried at how underfed/skinny it looked. This is when he told me about the snake's problems.

Never. Deal. With. This. Breeder. Again.

[Mikoh4792]

The bold...the second red flag on why I wouldn't buy or listen to this person. Who doesn't quarantine? Secondly, it would have to be some disgusting set up for cross contamination. Internal parasites don't just up and walk away...

The italics...why do you keep two at the bottom and middle of the cage and none at the top where she apparently spends most of her time? She doesn't bask in the middle.

The underline...you've given this animal ONLY one choice to bask. She will continue to do so because without she'll die. It doesn't make it optimal. That's like putting it in a glass bowl full of water and saying it "loves to swim all the time".

I'm not bitter about anything. I'm frustrated because people like you come here because you believe we know a better solution than you can come up with on your own so you ask a question. You get answers and because they don't match up with YOUR ideas you put them off and criticize them. It's fine to ask for further detail but not a person has come to say myself or Lady_bug is wrong so it should say something.


So now because you don't want to admit to things being your mistake since you're dead set on the arboreal set up because you think it's best you're now saying that due to it eating on a better schedule it would regurge?

I wasn't criticizing your ideas. I was just stating that you haven't proven to me why my setup was wrong even when my snake was thermoregulating herself with the proper temperatures available.

The reason why I don't have a thermometer at the top is because I have taped a helix proportional thermostat to her basking area, and I also check a few times a day with my infrared heat gun to make sure her hotspot is in check. Basically, the temperatures for the whole cage are accounted for.

How many options can I give to a snake so small? Small snakes kept in tubs or even smaller enclosures usually only have one choice of heat, be it a heat tape, pad, or a light. Also, what is not optimal about it? She goes up, she basks at 90F. <--- Is there something wrong here?

I am also not deadset on an arboreal setup. I don't like repeating myself but I will. I have said before that I would give it some time to confirm that she doesn't continue to thermoregulate herself based on the setup I have given her, before taking the advice of the posters here including you and giving her a terrestrial type of setup.


EDIT: I mentioned the powerfeeding so that it may give some more insight on the problem. I don't mean to redirect the fault at the previous owner. Heck I don't even know the problem is!

[Mikoh4792]

You keep referring to him to defend your actions!!! Where else would I infer such a notion?!

Noobs...

I refer him to tell you guys how he has kept his snakes before selling one of them to me. I never mentioned anything about listening to him.

nooby dooby doo!

Never. Deal. With. This. Breeder. Again.

I most definitely won't.

[Aaron_S]

I refer him to tell you guys how he has kept his snakes before selling one of them to me. I never mentioned anything about listening to him.

nooby dooby doo!



I most definitely won't.

Yet, the way he keeps him has them regurging and you've used this to try to say that it's not you, it's the snake! Get how you use him to defend you yet?

[Aaron_S]

I wasn't criticizing your ideas. I was just stating that you haven't proven to me why my setup was wrong even when my snake was thermoregulating herself with the proper temperatures available.

The reason why I don't have a thermometer at the top is because I have taped a helix proportional thermostat to her basking area, and I also check a few times a day with my infrared heat gun to make sure her hotspot is in check. Basically, the temperatures for the whole cage are accounted for.

How many options can I give to a snake so small? Small snakes kept in tubs or even smaller enclosures usually only have one choice of heat, be it a heat tape, pad, or a light. Also, what is not optimal about it? She goes up, she basks at 90F. <--- Is there something wrong here?

I am also not deadset on an arboreal setup. I don't like repeating myself but I will. I have said before that I would give it some time to confirm that she doesn't continue to thermoregulate herself based on the setup I have given her, before taking the advice of the posters here including you and giving her a terrestrial type of setup.

I don't like repeating myself either but I seem to have to. The fact, that your snake did not digest it's meal would tell me something is wrong with your set up.

All of my snakes are in tubs. ALL of them and there's plenty. None regurge. I don't have this issue. I never do because I maintain a proper enclosure for them all.

[Aaron_S]

Never. Deal. With. This. Breeder. Again.

Don't leave me hanging back in my previous post...

[Mikoh4792]

Yet, the way he keeps him has them regurging and you've used this to try to say that it's not you, it's the snake! Get how you use him to defend you yet?

Well it is true that the problem hasn't stemmed from me. Also, this particular aspect of our argument wasn't about using him to defend me. It was more so about me taking advice from him. Could we please address that point? You have been making many points and go off track when I negate your arguments.

[Mikoh4792]

I don't like repeating myself either but I seem to have to. The fact, that your snake did not digest it's meal would tell me something is wrong with your set up.

All of my snakes are in tubs. ALL of them and there's plenty. None regurge. I don't have this issue. I never do because I maintain a proper enclosure for them all.

If it was regurgitating before, and this was the first time feeding her, it just might not be because of me! I have already told you that my temperatures are correct, that the snake thermoregulates itself with the proper temperatures. You keep bashing me, name-calling me, and try to make me look like a fool.

[lady_bug87]

Don't leave me hanging back in my previous post...

<HIGH FIVE>
Feel Better?

If it was regurgitating before, and this was the first time feeding her, it just might not be because of me! I have already told you that my temperatures are correct, that the snake thermoregulates itself with the proper temperatures. You keep bashing me, name-calling me, and try to make me look like a fool.

It may not have started with you but it can certainly end with you. We're honestly trying to help

[Mikoh4792]

<HIGH FIVE>
Feel Better?



It may not have started with you but it can certainly end with you. We're honestly trying to help

I don't doubt the fact that you guys are trying to help. I appreciate it, however I just need that one point proven wrong to convince me that my setup is wrong.

12x12x18 - temperatures 75-92(cool side fluctuate slightly depending on time of day) -she DOES get warm. She basks <--- some people in this thread seem to miss that part.

I'm just gonna say it again. She uses the hotspot.

The original problem was regurgitation. Now it's only about the enclosure. Someone suggested it was my set up. I just told you guys my argument for why it isn't.

In three words my argument is : She get's warm.

[lady_bug87]

82 is too cold for a warm spot so even of she's basking its not hot enough. It could also be stress. I can't remember if you provided hides if not I would. You can put one on the warm end and add a small heat pad under the tank where the hide is. This way she can hide and feel burrowed while she digests while getting extra heat. They get freaked sometimes if they can't hide while they digest

Edit: I went back and read your original posts I see there is hide and warmer temps. I still think she would benefit from more floor space

[Mikoh4792]

82 is too cold for a warm spot so even of she's basking its not hot enough. It could also be stress. I can't remember if you provided hides if not I would. You can put one on the warm end and add a small heat pad under the tank where the hide is. This way she can hide and feel burrowed while she digests while getting extra heat. They get freaked sometimes if they can't hide while they digest

82 or 92? I wrote 82 before by accident and edited it to 92. I don't know if yours was a typo or not.

She has three hides on the ground, and two hides up top(suction cup plants).
I don't however, have a heat pad. I might just get one for the winter so the floor of the enclosure doesn't drop below 75....That is if I even stick with this setup. I'm giving her two weeks to fully recover her digestive fluids and if she regurges again. I will be moving her to a longer than taller enclosure with belly heat.

[Mikoh4792]

Edit: I went back and read your original posts I see there is hide and warmer temps. I still think she would benefit from more floor space

Gotcha.

As of right now shes so small I think a 10 gallon would be too big for her.

Shes only a foot long and If i'm not mistaken the general consensus for a minimum of enclosure floor space is a sq ft of floor space for every foot in length of the animal. She can stretch her whole body inside.

[lady_bug87]

Alright well let me know how it goes

After she eats does she perch or hide? If she's hiding and the temp in the hide isn't hot enough that could be the issue

[Mikoh4792]

Alright well let me know how it goes

Will do. I'll update in two weeks.

[Mikoh4792]

Alright well let me know how it goes

After she eats does she perch or hide? If she's hiding and the temp in the hide isn't hot enough that could be the issue

That may actually be the issue. She has hides up top but maybe she prefers to be low when she's full and sluggish from the food.

What I'll do is let her recover her digestive fluids for a week or so and once I try feeding her again, if I see that she isn't basking once full, I will move her into a "terrestrial" setup without even waiting for a regurgitation. This way, she can choose warmth and coolness both on the ground instead of having to climb up with a full belly.Thanks for pointing this out.

EDIT: However, her previous owner did tell me he was keeping her on belly heat in a 6wx5hx10L rack system. He also thinks this may be due to shed that hasn't come off... You guys think this is possible?
Edit: He also mentions dropping the temp? I've visited many caresheets and they all say these boas should have a warmer basking spot around 90F. I thought mid 80's was supposed to be the ambient air temperature near the warm side no?

"Your set up looks good, Her cage here was only 6wx5hx10L. Of course for us this was a basic small stock enclosure.You have a more elaborate set up.The highs for her might be to much and if possible I would drop them down to mid 80"s otherwise,good. I think a soak bath as I described may work out, as I said she could have a shed on her and it could be enough to be constricting. Again, I can't tell from pics but if you say her skin has folds that sounds like a shed that is stuck on her."

[lady_bug87]

Stuck shed will not cause a regurge. Lets just agree that you should forget everything this sorry excuse for a breeder says.

[Starbuck]

if you are only offering her arboreal basking sites, she is only going to use arboreal basking sites.

Regardless of whether they climb more/less than mainland bci, you arent really giving her an option. Do you have a small heat pat or something where you could create a warm spot on the bottom of the enclosure as well, that way she can use whichever she prefers?

[Mikoh4792]

Stuck shed will not cause a regurge. Lets just agree that you should forget everything this sorry excuse for a breeder says.

agreed

if you are only offering her arboreal basking sites, she is only going to use arboreal basking sites.

Regardless of whether they climb more/less than mainland bci, you arent really giving her an option. Do you have a small heat pat or something where you could create a warm spot on the bottom of the enclosure as well, that way she can use whichever she prefers?

It's the same with a terrestrial set up. One hot end, one cool end. In a small enclosure whether terrestrial or arboreal you will usually only have one option for a heat source. In a racking system this is usually done with a heat tape, in a small enclosure this is usually done with a heat pad or heat lamp. In the summer time do you really suggest using more than one heat option even for a terrestrial setup?It's a small enclosure, it's summer time. There will only be one source of heat.

I also ordered a magnetic ledge so she can lay on that as well and have a flat basking spot. Whether she is laying on that ledge up high or laying on the floor down low, if it is a hot spot then it is a hot spot no?
I don't understand all this talk about no options. I'm giving her a 90F basking spot. That's her option.

Also you guys talk as if it's bad to have a hotspot on a perch or a ledge at the top of the enclosure. Does the snake really care? In the wild even terrestrial reptiles will sometimes climb up brush and trees to bask in the sun. Do they care that it's on a tree or the ground? They are getting warm and that's the point.


EDIT: I don't mean to be rude but you could read through the thread to see what has already been said and it would answer your questions and respond to your statements. I mentioned when it gets cold in the winter I would be supplementing the heat with a heat pad. Giving her heat on the ground and at the top.

[marvelfreak]

It's fine to ask for further detail but not a person has come to say myself or Lady_bug is wrong so it should say something.


So now because you don't want to admit to things being your mistake since you're dead set on the arboreal set up because you think it's best you're now saying that due to it eating on a better schedule it would regurge?


I say your wrong on the arboreal part and here's my proof.

Boa c. imperator Cay Caulker | Stöckl - Die Nr.1 Boa constrictor Seite im Internet (http://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/boa_constrictor_imperator_belize_cay_caulker)

Caulkers Cay Boas are very small boas and adults max out at around 5 feet in length. I have had Females produce litters of 10 or more babies at as little as 45 inches and 3 years of age. They are lean boas and adults may be a thicker than a broom handle. They are more arboreal than most other Boa constrictors because they must take to the trees to avoid predators such as crabs at low tide. Their background color is a very light pastel gray. Their dorsal saddles are a darker steel gray and count 22 – 24 snout to vent. Caulkers Cay Boas are naturally anerythristic or lacking red. Their tail is also dark gray with flecks of brown in it. Some Caulkers Cays Boas are much Darker than others and could have black tails with black saddles. The ventrals on this boa are white and speckled with gray and black. The sides that touch the ventral scales are more speckled with gray & white. This overall gray color is most likely camouflage to blend in with its Mangrove and sandy surroundings.

[Mikoh4792]

edit: deleted because I thought marvel's response was written by Aaron_S. I should have read more carefully.

I was going to say, that furthers my point. If they are up in the trees avoiding predators, that is most likely where they will be getting their heat from. It is contradictory to spend time avoiding predators in the trees only to go down to get heat from the forest floor, leaving them vulnerable. It is more consistent and energy conserving to avoid predators up in the trees and canopy while basking in the heat at the same time.

[lady_bug87]

Thanks for the info Chuck I don't think it changes my opinion on the floor space though

[marvelfreak]

That doesn't prove me wrong. If anything it furthers my point by saying that due to their nature they climb up trees. Whether it be to avoid predators, the fact is they still climb. That particular citing says "more arboreal" which is what I have also said. I never said Cay Caulkers were arboreal snakes, I said they were more arboreal and semi-arboreal. Difference.

If they climb up trees to avoid predators then it would be contradictory to go down to the forest/rainforest floor to get heat. It leaves them vulnerable, only to go back up once they want to cool off and start avoiding predators again. It's more consistent and energy conserving to stay up high to get heated and avoid predators at the same time.

Let's say Cay Caulker Boas are strictly a terrestrial group of snakes. Let's say they didn't even climb trees to avoid predators. Where in that citing does it prove this point: "I say your wrong on the arboreal part and here's my proof"
I wasn't saying you where wrong i was saying Aaron was on the arboreal part. I was showing proof to back up the kind of set up you have.

[Mikoh4792]

I wasn't saying you where wrong i was saying Aaron was on the arboreal part. I was showing proof to back up the kind of set up you have.

Yes I went back and edited my post. I thought you were Aaron_S using that to refute my argument. I later realized it was you supporting my case and felt stupid. I've been up for about 24 hours now so my mind is a bit dazy. Not going to sleep though, might as well just wait it out and go to sleep early. lol

[marvelfreak]

Thanks for the info Chuck I don't think it changes my opinion on the floor space though
I totally agree on the floor space and that it should also be proved belly heat. The problem could be the having to climb up just to get to the heat with a full belly. Note that arboreal snakes are fed smaller meals than say a boa of the same length just because they are perch while digesting their food. Maybe the food is to big for it and something smaller should be tried. Just a thought.

[lady_bug87]

I totally agree on the floor space and that it should also be proved belly heat. The problem could be the having to climb up just to get to the heat with a full belly. Note that arboreal snakes are fed smaller meals than say a boa of the same length just because they are perch while digesting their food. Maybe the food is to big for it and something smaller should be tried. Just a thought.

That's what i was getting at.

Thanks Chuck, you're the best ;)

[Mikoh4792]

I totally agree on the floor space and that it should also be proved belly heat. The problem could be the having to climb up just to get to the heat with a full belly. Note that arboreal snakes are fed smaller meals than say a boa of the same length just because they are perch while digesting their food. Maybe the food is to big for it and something smaller should be tried. Just a thought.

I do agree. I mentioned earlier that maybe the snake doesn't want to climb up to the basking spot with a full stomach. Because of that point I will wait to see if this holds true the next feeding session. If she doesn't go up to bask after her feeding I am moving her straight away to a longer enclosure with belly heat. I don't want to risk a second regurgitation.

This is nerve racking, especially with this particular snake since she came to me all skinny and wrinkly. And knowing that she has been having problems with the previous owner.

[marvelfreak]

I do agree. I mentioned earlier that maybe the snake doesn't want to climb up to the basking spot with a full stomach. Because of that point I will wait to see if this holds true the next feeding session. If she doesn't go up to bask after her feeding I am moving her straight away to a longer enclosure with belly heat. I don't want to risk a second regurgitation.

This is nerve racking, especially with this particular snake since she came to me all skinny and wrinkly. And knowing that she has been having problems with the previous owner.

Don't worry we here to help. Before you know it she'll be doing just fine.

[Mikoh4792]

Don't worry we here to help. Before you know it she'll be doing just fine.

I use belly heat with two of my snakes so far. A corn and a king. They like to burrow so I give him extra depth with the bedding and in order to maintain temps I bump up the temp on the thermostat to 97 with the king(gets to 90-95 on the hotspot) and 92 with the corn(gets to about 85-88) on the hotspot.

With this boa whom I have not seen burrowing at all, I will probably give it a thinner layer of bedding. What temps do you guys usually set the thermostat to for heat pads?

[marvelfreak]

I use belly heat with two of my snakes so far. A corn and a king. They like to burrow so I give him extra depth with the bedding and in order to maintain temps I bump up the temp on the thermostat to 97 with the king(gets to 90-95 on the hotspot) and 92 with the corn(gets to about 85-88) on the hotspot.

With this boa whom I have not seen burrowing at all, I will probably give it a thinner layer of bedding. What temps do you guys usually set the thermostat to for heat pads?
All of mine are set at 90 but three. Those three snakes that i set it at 85. They would be my BRB's and My 75%Diamond x 25%Jungle Carpet.

[Aaron_S]

I say your wrong on the arboreal part and here's my proof.

Boa c. imperator Cay Caulker | Stöckl - Die Nr.1 Boa constrictor Seite im Internet (http://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/boa_constrictor_imperator_belize_cay_caulker)

Caulkers Cay Boas are very small boas and adults max out at around 5 feet in length. I have had Females produce litters of 10 or more babies at as little as 45 inches and 3 years of age. They are lean boas and adults may be a thicker than a broom handle. They are more arboreal than most other Boa constrictors because they must take to the trees to avoid predators such as crabs at low tide. Their background color is a very light pastel gray. Their dorsal saddles are a darker steel gray and count 22 – 24 snout to vent. Caulkers Cay Boas are naturally anerythristic or lacking red. Their tail is also dark gray with flecks of brown in it. Some Caulkers Cays Boas are much Darker than others and could have black tails with black saddles. The ventrals on this boa are white and speckled with gray and black. The sides that touch the ventral scales are more speckled with gray & white. This overall gray color is most likely camouflage to blend in with its Mangrove and sandy surroundings.

Chuck, I never said they don't ever climb. I said they just aren't true arboreals. They are semi arboreal. I read that last night when I searched the species myself. It states to me, they use it at a particular time of day to escape from predators. I'm sure they spend a lot of time on the ground as well. As I've stated previously, this means to use a proper enclosure and place some height in it and they'll utilize it. They don't need it like an ETB or GTP would.

Either way, some plants suctioned to the side of an enclosure isn't a hide. The reason for that is snakes like to feel secure, that's why they coil so they can easily defend the rest of their body with their one defense, the mouth.

Quite possibly, your snake isn't digesting as I stated before it's not getting warm enough because it can't bask without feeling insecure and climbing the branches. I'd suggest that these snakes in the wild don't climb the trees to bask but use the rocks instead.

Like I said, a proper simple set up is way better. It isn't too big for a 10 gallon tank.

Lastly, you're right about one heat source in a tub or another similar enclosure. The difference being is that my heat source and the rest of the enclosure is set up for the species I keep and not for just a part of their life that I decide to focus on.

[Aaron_S]

That may actually be the issue. She has hides up top but maybe she prefers to be low when she's full and sluggish from the food.

What I'll do is let her recover her digestive fluids for a week or so and once I try feeding her again, if I see that she isn't basking once full, I will move her into a "terrestrial" setup without even waiting for a regurgitation. This way, she can choose warmth and coolness both on the ground instead of having to climb up with a full belly.Thanks for pointing this out.

EDIT: However, her previous owner did tell me he was keeping her on belly heat in a 6wx5hx10L rack system. He also thinks this may be due to shed that hasn't come off... You guys think this is possible?
Edit: He also mentions dropping the temp? I've visited many caresheets and they all say these boas should have a warmer basking spot around 90F. I thought mid 80's was supposed to be the ambient air temperature near the warm side no?

"Your set up looks good, Her cage here was only 6wx5hx10L. Of course for us this was a basic small stock enclosure.You have a more elaborate set up.The highs for her might be to much and if possible I would drop them down to mid 80"s otherwise,good. I think a soak bath as I described may work out, as I said she could have a shed on her and it could be enough to be constricting. Again, I can't tell from pics but if you say her skin has folds that sounds like a shed that is stuck on her."

The bold is quite wrong. Snakes have as much digestion fluids in their stomach as they want. It continues to be produced aslong as there is something to be digested.

You can feed her tomorrow or today if you wanted and her body would be fine. Snakes don't have our metabolisms so don't treat them like they do.

[marvelfreak]

Chuck, I never said they don't ever climb. I said they just aren't true arboreals. They are semi arboreal. I read that last night when I searched the species myself. It states to me, they use it at a particular time of day to escape from predators. I'm sure they spend a lot of time on the ground as well. As I've stated previously, this means to use a proper enclosure and place some height in it and they'll utilize it. They don't need it like an ETB or GTP would.

Either way, some plants suctioned to the side of an enclosure isn't a hide. The reason for that is snakes like to feel secure, that's why they coil so they can easily defend the rest of their body with their one defense, the mouth.

Quite possibly, your snake isn't digesting as I stated before it's not getting warm enough because it can't bask without feeling insecure and climbing the branches. I'd suggest that these snakes in the wild don't climb the trees to bask but use the rocks instead.

Like I said, a proper simple set up is way better. It isn't too big for a 10 gallon tank.

Lastly, you're right about one heat source in a tub or another similar enclosure. The difference being is that my heat source and the rest of the enclosure is set up for the species I keep and not for just a part of their life that I decide to focus on.
I know i just wanted to say you were wrong.:) Also show how showing proof of what your saying can go a long way. If people are going to argue something be will to show proof to back up your argument. Then it not really a argument such as a health and informative debate.:)

[Aaron_S]

I know i just wanted to say you were wrong.:) Also show how showing proof of what your saying can go a long way. If people are going to argue something be will to show proof to back up your argument. Then it not really a argument such as a health and informative debate.:)

I'm waiting for this guy to show me evidence that this set up is common for this species and that's more beneficial than all the people who breed this species.

I'm going to e-mail those guys right now actually...

[Mikoh4792]

I'm waiting for this guy to show me evidence that this set up is common for this species and that's more beneficial than all the people who breed this species.

I'm going to e-mail those guys right now actually...

As stated earlier, you make too big of assumptions. I never said that my setup is more beneficial than all the people who breed this species. Who taught you how to argue? You take things way too far. Actually, I never meant to argue, what I meant to do was to ask you to tell me, how my set up is improper when there is a proper thermal gradient and my snake fully utilizes it.

[Mikoh4792]

The bold is quite wrong. Snakes have as much digestion fluids in their stomach as they want. It continues to be produced aslong as there is something to be digested.

You can feed her tomorrow or today if you wanted and her body would be fine. Snakes don't have our metabolisms so don't treat them like they do.

Learned something new. Thank you.

Chuck, I never said they don't ever climb. I said they just aren't true arboreals. They are semi arboreal. I read that last night when I searched the species myself. It states to me, they use it at a particular time of day to escape from predators. I'm sure they spend a lot of time on the ground as well. As I've stated previously, this means to use a proper enclosure and place some height in it and they'll utilize it. They don't need it like an ETB or GTP would.

Either way, some plants suctioned to the side of an enclosure isn't a hide. The reason for that is snakes like to feel secure, that's why they coil so they can easily defend the rest of their body with their one defense, the mouth.

Quite possibly, your snake isn't digesting as I stated before it's not getting warm enough because it can't bask without feeling insecure and climbing the branches. I'd suggest that these snakes in the wild don't climb the trees to bask but use the rocks instead.

Like I said, a proper simple set up is way better. It isn't too big for a 10 gallon tank.

Lastly, you're right about one heat source in a tub or another similar enclosure. The difference being is that my heat source and the rest of the enclosure is set up for the species I keep and not for just a part of their life that I decide to focus on.

Plants suctioned to the side can be a hide. It's how you use your furniture. For example you don't always need an official hide bought from the store. you could stack logs, cork flats...etc together to make a hiding spot. In the same way I use plants to stick to the wall so that my boa can hide inside it, as if it were hiding in a bush. I've tried it, I still do it and it works. What doesn't work for someone can work for another when used a certain way.

You can't know that. You do not know that the snake can't bask without feeling insecure. It's a pretty damn secure setup with an open area and a secure "hide" area at the basking site.

You keep saying that the snake isn't warm enough. That isn't the issue. This is how I know: 1. Basking spot is 90F 2. Snake basks at basking spot reaching temperatures at 90F. 3. It's gets warm enough.

[SnakeyJay]

The hotspot may be 90f but have you considered that as its up high and open that it doesn't spend long enough there to motabolise it's food... I guess you haven't thought about the pressure and strain put on a TERRESTRIAL snakes body as it climbs to this basking area..

It's not just about providing a hotspot, it's making the spot easily accessible while makkng the snake feel secure enough to use it for as long as it needs...

[Mikoh4792]

The hotspot may be 90f but have you considered that as its up high and open that it doesn't spend long enough there to motabolise it's food... I guess you haven't thought about the pressure and strain put on a TERRESTRIAL snakes body as it climbs to this basking area..

It's not just about providing a hotspot, it's making the spot easily accessible while makkng the snake feel secure enough to use it for as long as it needs...

I wouldn't call the Caulker Cay boa strictly a terrestrial snake. Also, as babies there isn't much strain on such a light body. If it was so straining, they wouldn't climb. Not only that, climbing is in this particular locale of BCI's nature as cited before by Marvelfreak.

I don't mean to be rude but reading through the thread would save you much time. I already mentioned there is also a bush at the hotspot where she can hide and bask.

However I do agree that it could just be that she isn't basking long enough. I have seen her stay up top for hours and stay at the bottom for hours so I am pretty sure she is doing as she wills.

By the way, we have to remember that this is captivity. We make the enclosures to scale in terms of mimicking nature, so we tend to exaggerate things. Climbing 18" off the floor is nothing. 18 inches only seems high because it's being compared to the 12" width and length of the cage. Even the most terrestrial snake can do that in the wild with ease. That's like climbing a bush, a log...etc. What's so straining about that?

EDIT: Did I say 18 inches? Sorry I meant to say 12 inches since the highest basking spot is 6 inches under the heat source, which is about 18" off the floor. Which even furthers my point. climbing 12" inches is not straining even for a ball python.

2nd EDIT: Sorry, just to make my point I would like to add a few more species that wouldn't mind climbing 12 inches to get some heat, including terrestrial and semi-arboreal snakes such as corn snakes, different types of rat snakes, spotted pythons...etc. You name it, 12 inches is nothing. No strain.

[SnakeyJay]

I have read the whole thread so don't try and be so bloody condescending, I just don't believe a bush is a hide...

Climbing 6 inches or 2ft still puts concentrated points of contact on a body carrying an extra load after feeding.. Of course they climb with relative ease with an empty stomach..

You really need to stop picking little bits of info to support your theory when they're taken out of context.

Either way, your obviously wrong somewhere as we're not the ones with a regurging snake.. Funny that.

[Aaron_S]

I have read the whole thread so don't try and be so bloody condescending, I just don't believe a bush is a hide...

Climbing 6 inches or 2ft still puts concentrated points of contact on a body carrying an extra load after feeding.. Of course they climb with relative ease with an empty stomach..

You really need to stop picking little bits of info to support your theory when they're taken out of context.

Either way, your obviously wrong somewhere as we're not the ones with a regurging snake.. Funny that.


So I'm not the only one who sees that the OP is grasping at straws?

As said here, and me prior, you've picked little bits as well as claim you're right and we're not. We don't have issues with our animals though. Tells me YOUR doing something wrong.

[Mikoh4792]

I have read the whole thread so don't try and be so bloody condescending, I just don't believe a bush is a hide...

Climbing 6 inches or 2ft still puts concentrated points of contact on a body carrying an extra load after feeding.. Of course they climb with relative ease with an empty stomach..

You really need to stop picking little bits of info to support your theory when they're taken out of context.

Either way, your obviously wrong somewhere as we're not the ones with a regurging snake.. Funny that.

Could you explain which little bits of info I used to support my theory when they were taken out of context? You talk as though using bits of info to support a theory is wrong. In my opinion it is the right thing to do. When do people not use bits of info to support a theory?


Yes obviously wrong somewhere, yet not when it comes to keeping it warm enough. If I thought I had everything right I wouldn't be here posting about this would I?

climbing 6 inches isn't that hard even with a full stomach. I'm assuming that you are assuming that this snake climbs from bottom to top on a skinny pole. There is a flag log placed from the bottom to the basking site. So it isn't like shes "climbing" up. It's more like crawling up. Again, at that weight going up 12 inches isn't going to strain anything.

[Aaron_S]

Learned something new. Thank you.



Plants suctioned to the side can be a hide. It's how you use your furniture. For example you don't always need an official hide bought from the store. you could stack logs, cork flats...etc together to make a hiding spot. In the same way I use plants to stick to the wall so that my boa can hide inside it, as if it were hiding in a bush. I've tried it, I still do it and it works. What doesn't work for someone can work for another when used a certain way.

You can't know that. You do not know that the snake can't bask without feeling insecure. It's a pretty damn secure setup with an open area and a secure "hide" area at the basking site.

You keep saying that the snake isn't warm enough. That isn't the issue. This is how I know: 1. Basking spot is 90F 2. Snake basks at basking spot reaching temperatures at 90F. 3. It's gets warm enough.

I know all about cage furniture. I don't use anything from a pet store. I don't walk into them. If I need a hide I make one and it's very rare I have a snake who requires it.

Anyway, because YOU feel the plant is secure doesn't mean the snake does. The difference here is that you continue to view everything from your point of view and what you want to believe or see. Not the snake's.

Put it this way. Would you with a full belly, which makes you vulnerable to predators and on the island birds are predators, climb a tree and hide in some leaves? Where for the most part there's open spaces and leaves can be pushed aside to get at. The option is some sort of burrow or under a rock where the sides are solid ground or rock and probably only one entrance that has some nice teeth protecting it. Oh, and the snake can bask on top of the burrow before retreating into it to digest in security.

I'd definitely pick the second one and so would your snake.

[Mikoh4792]

So I'm not the only one who sees that the OP is grasping at straws?

As said here, and me prior, you've picked little bits as well as claim you're right and we're not. We don't have issues with our animals though. Tells me YOUR doing something wrong.

This is actually the only animal I am having an issue with. And as mentioned earlier it came with the problems so it could still be lingering. You are deadset on the argument that it is about heating. I clearly negated that argument by telling you she has the proper temperatures and uses them. It's not the heating.

You talk as though there is something wrong with "picking little bits". Little bits add up.

[Aaron_S]

I wouldn't call the Caulker Cay boa strictly a terrestrial snake. Also, as babies there isn't much strain on such a light body. If it was so straining, they wouldn't climb. Not only that, climbing is in this particular locale of BCI's nature as cited before by Marvelfreak.

I don't mean to be rude but reading through the thread would save you much time. I already mentioned there is also a bush at the hotspot where she can hide and bask.

However I do agree that it could just be that she isn't basking long enough. I have seen her stay up top for hours and stay at the bottom for hours so I am pretty sure she is doing as she wills.

By the way, we have to remember that this is captivity. We make the enclosures to scale in terms of mimicking nature, so we tend to exaggerate things. Climbing 18" off the floor is nothing. 18 inches only seems high because it's being compared to the 12" width and length of the cage. Even the most terrestrial snake can do that in the wild with ease. That's like climbing a bush, a log...etc. What's so straining about that?

EDIT: Did I say 18 inches? Sorry I meant to say 12 inches since the highest basking spot is 6 inches under the heat source, which is about 18" off the floor. Which even furthers my point. climbing 12" inches is not straining even for a ball python.

2nd EDIT: Sorry, just to make my point I would like to add a few more species that wouldn't mind climbing 12 inches to get some heat, including terrestrial and semi-arboreal snakes such as corn snakes, different types of rat snakes, spotted pythons...etc. You name it, 12 inches is nothing. No strain.

You clearly missed the whole point of "strain" on a snake. These bodies were never really built to withstand that kind of "strain". Ever pick up a boa off the ground and have it's tail hanging in the air? They hate it. They quickly find a way to wrap the tail around something to feel secure.

I'd like you to cite actual sources of where those species climb to get to heat. You ask for everyone else to, so you prove your points.

[Aaron_S]

This is actually the only animal I am having an issue with. And as mentioned earlier it came with the problems so it could still be lingering. You are deadset on the argument that it is about heating. I clearly negated that argument by telling you she has the proper temperatures and uses them. It's not the heating.

You talk as though there is something wrong with "picking little bits". Little bits add up.

Lingering? Bad husbandry to bad husbandry is obviously the only lingering factor in my opinion.

If that's NOT the issue as you say it is, go take it to the vet, get a test done for all pathogens and tell us the result. Why haven't you done this yet?

Picking little bits of an argument is wrong because you can't only use "little bits" to make a case.

I also don't care for your experience with 2 other snakes that my 4 year old nephew could keep alive. This animal isn't quite like that especially when you start out wrong.

[Mikoh4792]

I know all about cage furniture. I don't use anything from a pet store. I don't walk into them. If I need a hide I make one and it's very rare I have a snake who requires it.

Anyway, because YOU feel the plant is secure doesn't mean the snake does. The difference here is that you continue to view everything from your point of view and what you want to believe or see. Not the snake's.

Put it this way. Would you with a full belly, which makes you vulnerable to predators and on the island birds are predators, climb a tree and hide in some leaves? Where for the most part there's open spaces and leaves can be pushed aside to get at. The option is some sort of burrow or under a rock where the sides are solid ground or rock and probably only one entrance that has some nice teeth protecting it. Oh, and the snake can bask on top of the burrow before retreating into it to digest in security.

I'd definitely pick the second one and so would your snake.

The irony. Now you are talking from your point of view.

If a snake feels insecure, it will hide. It wouldn't just stay out basking. It's a 12x12 enclosure for christ's sake, with black paper covering the three sides. It's a secure set up.

The fact is, all bushes and leaves are different. Some more open and closed than others. The one I have provided for her is enough to cover her whole body.

[Mikoh4792]

Lingering? Bad husbandry to bad husbandry is obviously the only lingering factor in my opinion.

If that's NOT the issue as you say it is, go take it to the vet, get a test done for all pathogens and tell us the result. Why haven't you done this yet?

Picking little bits of an argument is wrong because you can't only use "little bits" to make a case.

I also don't care for your experience with 2 other snakes that my 4 year old nephew could keep alive. This animal isn't quite like that especially when you start out wrong.

Make that 3 with past experience as well. Picking little bits of an argument may just be wrong, but you have not told me which little bits I have used, and how they were used in the wrong way. You just put that statement out there without ever backing it up.

EDIT: could you tell me how I commit bad husbandry to my snake? It has everything it needs. Hides, water, thermal gradient. Small enough enclosure to feel secure along with the hides. You call this bad husbandry?

The funny thing is you never.... once... have addressed my point about the temperatures being correct. you keep saying "it isn't warm enough". I have repeated myself several times now. The temperatures are all correct and the snake uses them to thermoregulate herself. Please refute this once and for all. You keep avoiding this point and try to win the argument by bashing me by saying things like " Bad husbandy ","You don't know much"," my 4 year old can do that". These are all ad-hominem attacks meant to attack the person instead of the argument at hand.

[marvelfreak]

This thread reminds me of


http://blogna.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Get_Along.jpg




NOT!

[Aaron_S]

Make that 3 with past experience as well. Picking little bits of an argument may just be wrong, but you have not told me which little bits I have used, and how they were used in the wrong way. You just put that statement out there without ever backing it up.

EDIT: could you tell me how I commit bad husbandry to my snake? It has everything it needs. Hides, water, thermal gradient. Small enough enclosure to feel secure along with the hides. You call this bad husbandry?

The funny thing is you never.... once... have addressed my point about the temperatures being correct. you keep saying "it isn't warm enough". I have repeated myself several times now. The temperatures are all correct and the snake uses them to thermoregulate herself. Please refute this once and for all. You keep avoiding this point and try to win the argument by bashing me by saying things like " Bad husbandy ","You don't know much"," my 4 year old can do that". These are all ad-hominem attacks meant to attack the person instead of the argument at hand.

I brought up certain "attacks" as you call them as a refute to you and your reasoning for why you decided not to listen. You say this is your only snake with an issue, I say that's because the other two are so simple my young nephew can do it too so it isn't something for you to stand on.

I have attacked your argument. You seem to not refute it because you can't. You have a snake with a problem, I do not. Ergo, my information isn't as bad as you may think it is.


About your temperatures here is the post with your high temps. You're off by an easy 2 degrees steady. You should keep it 89 - 90 and not above.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/842931-post3.html

I never said it was the temps, I said the heating isn't working right. Which if you read that correctly could mean that your snake isn't achieving the proper temps. Despite what you're 6 thermometers read. It's your snake's temp, not the cage temp that truly matters. This is proved by the fact she regurged her meal two days later.

As well, your snake has shown that your enclosure isn't secure. If it was there would be no regurged rat in there. YOU say it is, but I doubt your snake is fully there yet. It took a meal so for the record it's partially secure.

The LAST thing, and I've presumed it thus far, is that you don't handle this snake like at all yet. If you do, that's a clear indicator of such behaviour as a regurge as it's STRESS. Stress isn't only from an insecure hide.

Like I said though, leaves aren't the same as a real tough solid piece to hide in. You can say it is, but trust me. Would you feel comfortable hiding yourself in leaves from a lion or would you feel more comfortable in something sturdy and covered on all sides? That's how your snake feels. I hope that's something you can understand since snake behaviour isn't quite your cup of tea yet.

EDIT: As it stands I'm awaiting an e-mail from the breeders in the States who first produced these animals when they were imported.

[Mikoh4792]

I brought up certain "attacks" as you call them as a refute to you and your reasoning for why you decided not to listen. You say this is your only snake with an issue, I say that's because the other two are so simple my young nephew can do it too so it isn't something for you to stand on.

I have attacked your argument. You seem to not refute it because you can't. You have a snake with a problem, I do not. Ergo, my information isn't as bad as you may think it is.


About your temperatures here is the post with your high temps. You're off by an easy 2 degrees steady. You should keep it 89 - 90 and not above.

I never said it was the temps, I said the heating isn't working right. Which if you read that correctly could mean that your snake isn't achieving the proper temps. Despite what you're 6 thermometers read. It's your snake's temp, not the cage temp that truly matters. This is proved by the fact she regurged her meal two days later.

As well, your snake has shown that your enclosure isn't secure. If it was there would be no regurged rat in there. YOU say it is, but I doubt your snake is fully there yet. It took a meal so for the record it's partially secure.

The LAST thing, and I've presumed it thus far, is that you don't handle this snake like at all yet. If you do, that's a clear indicator of such behaviour as a regurge as it's STRESS. Stress isn't only from an insecure hide.

Like I said though, leaves aren't the same as a real tough solid piece to hide in. You can say it is, but trust me. Would you feel comfortable hiding yourself in leaves from a lion or would you feel more comfortable in something sturdy and covered on all sides? That's how your snake feels. I hope that's something you can understand since snake behaviour isn't quite your cup of tea yet.

Well there you go. A more sensible argument. An easy 2 degrees isn't going to hurt either way. In the wild there are fluctuations all the time, and degrees can get hotter than 90F. If there is a hotter than 90f spot in the cage, she can move elsewhere. This is infact, text-book thermoregulation. Also, because there used to be an actual level to the top( as in another floor space) my snake would be able to move to a 90F degree spot if 92 was too hot or 88 was too cold.

You said my heating wasn't working right, yet you say that has nothing to do with temps. I don't know how many times I can say this but I will respectfully address as much of the issues that you bring forward as I can. The temps were there, and the snake utilized them. I would call that in your own words "heating working right".

I only handled her two times. First time I handled her was the day she came. I took her out of the deli cup, checked her out for minute to see if anything was wrong. The only thing I could tell was that she was very skinny.

Second time was a day before I fed her. I was hooking up a stick on thermometer to the wall but she was blocking the way so I picked her up and moved her. Would only those two times be enough to stress her out?(serious question, in case you feel this is an attack against you.)

[lady_bug87]

This argument is seriously ridiculous.

To the OP: arguing with Aaron is NOT fixing your problem.

Let me give you one more example:

You're at my house and I feed you a great big meal. Thoroughly satisfied, we sit in my living room on the sofa talking. The house is 75°

Now.

You're at my house a second time and after the same large meal I sit you in an office chair and spin it then I fling you over the balcony of my deck belly down. The temperature is 75° and I will wager you will either throw up or be close to it.

Digestion takes the right conditions for both temperature and over all comfort. Thats all I'm saying

[Mikoh4792]

Like I said though, leaves aren't the same as a real tough solid piece to hide in. You can say it is, but trust me. Would you feel comfortable hiding yourself in leaves from a lion or would you feel more comfortable in something sturdy and covered on all sides? That's how your snake feels. I hope that's something you can understand since snake behaviour isn't quite your cup of tea yet.

EDIT: As it stands I'm awaiting an e-mail from the breeders in the States who first produced these animals when they were imported.

Human security is different from snake security would you not agree?
The thing is, you make these boas out to be always hiding. They aren't ball pythons that are in burrows most of the time. As cited earlier these snakes do go up the trees in the wild to avoid predators. Where do you think they hide in the trees? In some rock in the tree? No probably in between brush and patches of leaves that are on the branches. At same time, soaking up the sun's heat. I have mimicked a similar environment in the previous enclosure.

[Mikoh4792]

This argument is seriously ridiculous.

To the OP: arguing with Aaron is NOT fixing your problem.

Let me give you one more example:

You're at my house and I feed you a great big meal. Thoroughly satisfied, we sit in my living room on the sofa talking. The house is 75°

Now.

You're at my house a second time and after the same large meal I sit you in an office chair and spin it then I fling you over the balcony of my deck belly down. The temperature is 75° and I will wager you will either throw up or be close to it.

Digestion takes the right conditions for both temperature and over all comfort. Thats all I'm saying

Arguing is good. It settles things.

Nice analogy. However you forgot we are warm blooded =].

[Aaron_S]

Well there you go. A more sensible argument. An easy 2 degrees isn't going to hurt either way. In the wild there are fluctuations all the time, and degrees can get hotter than 90F. If there is a hotter than 90f spot in the cage, she can move elsewhere. This is infact, text-book thermoregulation. Also, because there used to be an actual level to the top( as in another floor space) my snake would be able to move to a 90F degree spot if 92 was too hot or 88 was too cold.

Since when are we in the wild? We are not. From experience, and trust me it's a lot, a couple degrees can do wonders for these temperature sensitive animals.

She can't really move elsewhere because the only way to move is down. Where the heat is going. It's not a big enclosure by any means and the heat is going down..it's going to affect the entire thing, no matter what.

You said my heating wasn't working right, yet you say that has nothing to do with temps. I don't know how many times I can say this but I will respectfully address as much of the issues that you bring forward as I can. The temps were there, and the snake utilized them. I would call that in your own words "heating working right".

Something isn't working right. Heating is the number one cause of regurges. We'll agree to disagree because neither one is moving on this subject and I am not taking a trip to the States to prove myself right.

When is your vet appointment? You never did reply to that question since you believe everything to be in working order otherwise.

Would only those two times be enough to stress her out?(serious question, in case you feel this is an attack against you.)

No.

[Mikoh4792]

Since when are we in the wild? We are not. From experience, and trust me it's a lot, a couple degrees can do wonders for these temperature sensitive animals.

She can't really move elsewhere because the only way to move is down. Where the heat is going. It's not a big enclosure by any means and the heat is going down..it's going to affect the entire thing, no matter what.



Something isn't working right. Heating is the number one cause of regurges. We'll agree to disagree because neither one is moving on this subject and I am not taking a trip to the States to prove myself right.

When is your vet appointment? You never did reply to that question since you believe everything to be in working order otherwise.



No.

Again you are making assumptions that are too large for your current knowledge of my previous setup. The only way to go is not down. There are four general areas of a thermal gradient in that enclosure. To the top most back side is going to the hottest. Around 90-92F. Around the top most front side near the 2 hinged doors will be around 88F. At the bottom most back side it will be around 80-85 and the bottom most front it will be a few degrees cooler. Not to mention the different logs and such she can go on that are around the middle of the enclosure. It is a proper thermal gradient.

As for the vet, I will get her checked out soon. I wonder why you are so curious.

EDIT: when are we in the wild? We aren't. But wild specimens do experience these fluctuations and survive by going up in the trees. Important thing to note - They go up in the trees and that is how they survive. It is in their nature. Please take note of this point.

[Aaron_S]

Human security is different from snake security would you not agree?
The thing is, you make these boas out to be always hiding. They aren't ball pythons that are in burrows most of the time. As cited earlier these snakes do go up the trees in the wild to avoid predators. Where do you think they hide in the trees? In some rock in the tree? No probably in between brush and patches of leaves that are on the branches. At same time, soaking up the sun's heat. I have mimicked a similar environment in the previous enclosure.

Hiding from predators in a tree and hiding from predators in a tree while on a full belly are quite different.

The material cited states it's to get away from crabs at low tide. Note, no food in the belly for the most part.

Small snakes hide a lot. They aren't near the top of a food chain so I don't think they'd be out and about all the time.

I used an analogy of human security in a way that a snake must feel secure. You should be able to understand it.

You mimicked an environment you thought to be correct. Your snake proved you wrong. Again, it's semi arboreal. If you would like here's a "wild" analogy. That snake has 1 acre of land to travel across with 1 tree on it. How much time do you expect it to be in the 1 tree as opposed to everything else?

In your home you've gone with the 1 tree as your answer. Your snake has proven you wrong, it's upto you to figure out what part is wrong. I've done my best.

[Mikoh4792]

Hiding from predators in a tree and hiding from predators in a tree while on a full belly are quite different.

The material cited states it's to get away from crabs at low tide. Note, no food in the belly for the most part.

Small snakes hide a lot. They aren't near the top of a food chain so I don't think they'd be out and about all the time.

I used an analogy of human security in a way that a snake must feel secure. You should be able to understand it.

You mimicked an environment you thought to be correct. Your snake proved you wrong. Again, it's semi arboreal. If you would like here's a "wild" analogy. That snake has 1 acre of land to travel across with 1 tree on it. How much time do you expect it to be in the 1 tree as opposed to everything else?

In your home you've gone with the 1 tree as your answer. Your snake has proven you wrong, it's upto you to figure out what part is wrong. I've done my best.

Actually, in an earlier part of this thread I did say that the snake may not be getting warm enough because it doesn't go up to bask on a full stomach. Lady bug made that point and I agreed on it to be a possibility, which is why I took your advice along with others and gave it an actual terrestrial type setup.

All I am arguing is that I provided a proper thermal gradient. <-- Is that what you want to argue about still?

[Aaron_S]

Again you are making assumptions that are too large for your current knowledge of my previous setup. The only way to go is not down. There are four general areas of a thermal gradient in that enclosure. To the top most back side is going to the hottest. Around 90-92F. Around the top most front side near the 2 hinged doors will be around 88F. At the bottom most back side it will be around 80-85 and the bottom most front it will be a few degrees cooler. Not to mention the different logs and such she can go on that are around the middle of the enclosure. It is a proper thermal gradient.

As for the vet, I will get her checked out soon. I wonder why you are so curious.

I can only make presumptions of your enclosure based on the information given. That's just baiting for you to say that since you're the only one who can give it.

I see only one thermometer in your pics from the first page. It's a 12x12. Something is obviously wrong and you're just saying "this is what it is so I'm not wrong" but yet your snake has proven otherwise.

I am so curious about this vet because you say everything is in working order so it MUST be a "lingering" affect from the breeder.It isn't heating/cooling, it isn't stress from handling, it isn't stress from insecurity. Which means it has to be something wrong with the snake. That seems to be your point, no? If that's true then you'd be taking it to a vet to get it properly examined for everything.

[Aaron_S]

Actually, in an earlier part of this thread I did say that the snake may not be getting warm enough because it doesn't go up to bask on a full stomach. Lady bug made that point and I agreed on it to be a possibility, which is why I took your advice along with others and gave it an actual terrestrial type setup.

All I am arguing is that I provided a proper thermal gradient. <-- Is that what you want to argue about still?

It's obviously not proper if she can't uh use it to digest a meal.

If a snake can't thermoregulate while on a full body then it isn't proper! You've been wrong this entire time. She wasn't getting the right amount of heat when she needed it.

Whoa! Shocker. The snake also used the ground to hide instead of the fake plants? Whoa....shocker there too.

[Mikoh4792]

I can only make presumptions of your enclosure based on the information given. That's just baiting for you to say that since you're the only one who can give it.

I see only one thermometer in your pics from the first page. It's a 12x12. Something is obviously wrong and you're just saying "this is what it is so I'm not wrong" but yet your snake has proven otherwise.

I am so curious about this vet because you say everything is in working order so it MUST be a "lingering" affect from the breeder.It isn't heating/cooling, it isn't stress from handling, it isn't stress from insecurity. Which means it has to be something wrong with the snake. That seems to be your point, no? If that's true then you'd be taking it to a vet to get it properly examined for everything.

I never said things must be, I did however say things may be. I am open to possibilities and going to a vet may help me eliminate some of them.

You can not see the whole enclosure. However I assure you there were four. 2 accurites in the bottom and 2 flukers near the top. With a thermostat for the basking area. I keep many measuring tools for all of my animals.
In my new thread you can only see 2 zoo med thermometers in the new setup. Guess how many more there are?

[Aaron_S]

I never said things must be, I did however say things may be. I am open to possibilities and going to a vet may help me eliminate some of them.

You can not see the whole enclosure. However I assure you there were four. 2 accurites in the bottom and 2 flukers near the top. With a thermostat for the basking area. I keep many measuring tools for all of my animals.
In my new thread you can only see 2 zoo med thermometers in the new setup. Guess how many more there are?

I don't really care anymore, I'm already right.

Personally, I'd only go to the vet if it continues.

[Mikoh4792]

Aaron makes a really good point. Here is picture of my green tree python. Note the difference between her and your BCI

I forgot to ask you, what are you using to heat your GTP? and what type of enclosure is she in?(Rack,Plastic?)

[MH4C]

You said she's hiding out during the day, in hides which are 75-80F? This seems a bit low for digestion, certainly a useable temp for any BCI, but if she's accepting cold 'ground hides' or warm perches it should make you think ;). Providing her with more ground heat (UTH) on about 1/3 to 1/2 of the surface of your tub will probably give her the temps she needs to properly digest her food without her having to 'sit in the open' while digesting, which she probably isn't doing :).

[Mikoh4792]

You said she's hiding out during the day, in hides which are 75-80F? This seems a bit low for digestion, certainly a useable temp for any BCI, but if she's accepting cold 'ground hides' or warm perches it should make you think ;). Providing her with more ground heat (UTH) on about 1/3 to 1/2 of the surface of your tub will probably give her the temps she needs to properly digest her food without her having to 'sit in the open' while digesting, which she probably isn't doing :).

If you read my new thread, you will see that I have given her a terrestrial setup with a heat mat. Right now she is in her warm hide.

Yes, I did say that she basks at night, however, I did not say that she was hiding out during the day. Please do not put words in my mouth.

Also, it only get to about 75F during the night in the cool side which she is not in at night. At night she'd be basking at 90F. I mentioned it was around 75-80 depending on time of day. So during the day when she decides to cool down she would be around 80F more or less.

[lady_bug87]

I forgot to ask you, what are you using to heat your GTP? and what type of enclosure is she in?(Rack,Plastic?)

With her I use bulbs and in the colder months I supplement with a heat pad if necessary.

[KORBIN5895]

The reason your setup didn't work is because the fake plants were blocking all of the heat. If you would've added additional heat half way down you would've been fine.

This thread was ridiculous on both sides. It was a serious waste of my time.

[Aaron_S]

The reason your setup didn't work is because the fake plants were blocking all of the heat. If you would've added additional heat half way down you would've been fine.

This thread was ridiculous on both sides. It was a serious waste of my time.

Good thing your time isn't worth anything.

[Mikoh4792]

The reason your setup didn't work is because the fake plants were blocking all of the heat. If you would've added additional heat half way down you would've been fine.

This thread was ridiculous on both sides. It was a serious waste of my time.

Do you know this for sure? I don't think so. Also how much heat do you want to go to the bottom? If the thermal gradient is top to bottom than it's a good thing if something is blocking heat from going down. During the day it can get to 82F down there. Any higher and it isn't really a cool side anymore is it?

And we don't owe you any time. No one forced you to read.

[KORBIN5895]

@Aaron

Obviously my time is worth more than yours as I'm not the one that spent the last two days arguing with the noob.

Do you know this for sure? I don't think so. Also how much heat do you want to go to the bottom? If the thermal gradient is top to bottom than it's a good thing if something is blocking heat from going down. During the day it can get to 82F down there. Any higher and it isn't really a cool side anymore is it?

And we don't owe you any time. No one forced you to read.

Okay Mikoh let me keep this real simple so you can understand. If it is 100°f outside in the sun and you stand in shade what happens?

Now I can tell this is happening from two things; first is your picture and second is personal experience.

I currently have a setup like that and I have used it before with another of my boas. The first time around I couldn't get it to work properly and my snake regurged for five weeks straight.

I also will mention that it probably isn't parasites. Also all of those regurgitation have probably jacked it's throat right up so I think you should get off you complacent butt and get it to the vet.

[Mikoh4792]

@Aaron

Obviously my time is worth more than yours as I'm not the one that spent the last two days arguing with the noob.

At least he takes the time to explain things instead of leaving vague statements and using personal life as some excuse to not contribute.

Okay Mikoh let me keep this real simple so you can understand. If it is 100°f outside in the sun and you stand in shade what happens?
What is your point? And why are you comparing humans to snakes?

Now I can tell this is happening from two things; first is your picture and second is personal experience.

I currently have a setup like that and I have used it before with another of my boas. The first time around I couldn't get it to work properly and my snake regurged for five weeks straight.

Sounds reasonable. However what doesn't work for someone may work for someone else when used differently. I'll never get to find that out since I have already taken the advice of the posters here and moved it to a terrestrial type setup with belly heat.

I also will mention that it probably isn't parasites. Also all of those regurgitation have probably jacked it's throat right up so I think you should get off you complacent butt and get it to the vet.

Judgmental are we?

[KORBIN5895]

At least he takes the time to explain things instead of leaving vague statements and using personal life as some excuse to not contribute.


What is your point? And why are you comparing humans to snakes?



Sounds reasonable. However what doesn't work for someone may work for someone else when used differently. I'll never get to find that out since I have already taken the advice of the posters here and moved it to a terrestrial type setup with belly heat.



Judgmental are we?

Listen up pal. I can say whatever I please to Aaron because he is a tool.

Secondly I have been busy with a real life so my time is precious. I don't have time to waste holding your little hand to walk you through what you can't figure out.

I plainly stated why your setup did not work and what the issue is. Heck I even used an example that was scientifically correct and east enough for even Aaron to understand.... yet you missed it. My shade example applies to anything because no matter what you do the shade will block the radiant heat from the sun whether it is a human, a snake or a rock.

Maybe you missed it but I am currently house a boa in a 2'x2'x2' successfully. That means I am making the same type of setup work for me even though you were incapable of doing it. That speaks about our respective experience levels now doesn't it?

Finally you have argued with everyone on here about your snakes problem. You claim it is a problem with the snake so go get a vet to fix it or it may die. Do you understand? Good now sit down and learn a bit before continuing to make a fool of yourself.

[Mikoh4792]

Listen up pal. I can say whatever I please to Aaron because he is a tool.

Secondly I have been busy with a real life so my time is precious. I don't have time to waste holding your little hand to walk you through what you can't figure out.

I plainly stated why your setup did not work and what the issue is. Heck I even used an example that was scientifically correct and east enough for even Aaron to understand.... yet you missed it. My shade example applies to anything because no matter what you do the shade will block the radiant heat from the sun whether it is a human, a snake or a rock.

Maybe you missed it but I am currently house a boa in a 2'x2'x2' successfully. That means I am making the same type of setup work for me even though you were incapable of doing it. That speaks about our respective experience levels now doesn't it?

Finally you have argued with everyone on here about your snakes problem. You claim it is a problem with the snake so go get a vet to fix it or it may die. Do you understand? Good now sit down and learn a bit before continuing to make a fool of yourself.

Lol "argument is over cause I say it's over!"

What do you mean by busy with real life? Isn't me learning on forums a part of real life?

I don't know why you said anything about the shade. It has nothing to do with this argument. Either that or you are not very articulate.

Also, it takes less time to actually just help me instead of writing up rants and bashings like you do. I think this forum is a way for you to vent the stress you get from "real life". I understand.

Edit: You said the plants were blocking the heat. Untrue. I am using a compact hood which extends across the whole length of the enclosure. If you actually took the time to read some of these posts you would know that temperatures differ between the top back and top front of the terrarium. The plants only take up a little space of the basking area. There are open spaces and secure spaces provided by the plants. Maybe you shouldn't even argue here if you are so busy with your real life, you only take time to voice your opinions and not listen to both sides of the argument.

Also 2x2x2 is not the same as 12x12x18. It isn't even the same type of setup. You know how? Yours worked, mine didn't. If you used the same setup yours wouldn't have worked either. Please go ralph.jpeg.

EDIT: I haven't argued with everyone on here. And I actually have taken the advice from some of the people that I have argued with. This is because they convinced me through arguing, not name calling, bashing, condescending...etc. Go vent your stress somewhere else "pal". This isn't the place for it.

EDIT: Also could you stop telling us how busy you are? As my posts were getting old to you, your posts are getting annoying to me. No one cares how busy you are. You are busy and you are using the little time you have to write mean things to people. This is how I know you're here to vent, not to help. I can learn about snakes from you, you can learn about manners from me.

[KORBIN5895]

Lol "argument is over cause I say it's over!"

What do you mean by busy with real life? Isn't me learning on forums a part of real life?

I don't know why you said anything about the shade. It has nothing to do with this argument. Either that or you are not very articulate.

Also, it takes less time to actually just help me instead of writing up rants and bashings like you do. I think this forum is a way for you to vent the stress you get from "real life". I understand.

Edit: You said the plants were blocking the heat. Untrue. I am using a compact hood which extends across the whole length of the enclosure. If you actually took the time to read some of these posts you would know that temperatures differ between the top back and top front of the terrarium. The plants only take up a little space of the basking area. There are open spaces and secure spaces provided by the plants. Maybe you shouldn't even argue here if you are so busy with your real life, you only take time to voice your opinions and not listen to both sides of the argument.

Also 2x2x2 is not the same as 12x12x18. It isn't even the same type of setup. You know how? Yours worked, mine didn't. If you used the same setup yours wouldn't have worked either. Please go ralph.jpeg.

EDIT: I haven't argued with everyone on here. And I actually have taken the advice from some of the people that I have argued with. This is because they convinced me through arguing, not name calling, bashing, condescending...etc. Go vent your stress somewhere else "pal". This isn't the place for it.

EDIT: Also could you stop telling us how busy you are? As my posts were getting old to you, your posts are getting annoying to me. No one cares how busy you are. You are busy and you are using the little time you have to write mean things to people. This is how I know you're here to vent, not to help. I can learn about snakes from you, you can learn about manners from me.

What type of bulbs does a compact hood use?

Your learning curve has nothing to do with my life so it doesn't matter what you do in rl.

The shade analogy is directly aimed at the fact that I can see the red light on top of your leaves. I was pulling for you as I personally know a semi arboreal set up is fine for a boa but you wanted proved wrong so I told you why it wasn't working.

I used the same setup but on a larger scale.

As for listening to both sides I did. Aaron was right that something was wrong but didn't have an exact answer. Yours had no real facts, knowledge or experience backing it up but it definitely wasn't your fault.

[lady_bug87]

Wow Kevin, you really showed us how smart you are.

Thanks for showing all us peons who the cōck of the walk is...

[Mikoh4792]

What type of bulbs does a compact hood use?

The zoomed ones can use up to 60 watts and the exo terra ones can use up to 26 watts. I use one of each. I have a 40 watt bulb in the zoomed and a low wattage flourescent in the exo terra. Having those two on top seems to retain heat and humidity in the cage pretty well since the whole screen top is being covered. There is still ventilation from a chink in the swinging doors and the exo terra trademark ventilation holes near the bottom.

The shade analogy is directly aimed at the fact that I can see the red light on top of your leaves. I was pulling for you as I personally know a semi arboreal set up is fine for a boa but you wanted proved wrong so I told you why it wasn't working.

I see your point, but I am here with the thermometers and heat guns. You can't just tell from pictures you have to be in my shoes.


As for listening to both sides I did. Aaron was right that something was wrong but didn't have an exact answer. Yours had no real facts, knowledge or experience backing it up but it definitely wasn't your fault.

Well let's just say I know when to let my ego down because I did end up moving my boa to a terrestrial setup in which I do see improvements.

[KORBIN5895]

Are they double sockets or a fluorescent tube? They sound like double sockets.

[Mikoh4792]

Are they double sockets or a fluorescent tube? They sound like double sockets.

From 18x18 sized exo terras and up you get double socket to quadruple socket hoods. However my exo terras are the 12x12 models which are only single socket.

If you mean to ask what kind of fluorescent lighting I used, I have a compact exo terra full spectrum bulb. It's more like a coiled bulb than a tube. I use it mainly for lighting so I got the lowest wattage one I could find(13 watts). It's the 2.0 which emits uva but no uvb.

[KORBIN5895]

I would never count on a cfl for any type of heat source. They just don't work.

[Mikoh4792]

I would never count on a cfl for any type of heat source. They just don't work.

Me neither. Which is why I use a 40 watt incandescent red bulb specifically made for heating.

My fluorescent wouldn't be able to heat the enclosure even on the hottest of days. It's 13 watts so there is basically no heat output. It might raise the temperature by only a few degrees a few inches below but other than that it's only used for lighting.

Here you can see how they cover the whole screen top
http://i42.tinypic.com/2wddd0g.jpg

A very weak bulb I just use to light up the enclosure
http://i41.tinypic.com/2u9o8aq.jpg

Finally the heat source. And this is what I meant when I said the hood extends the whole length of the enclosure. The metal frame reflects heats from the bulb to the end of the hood so you get a nice basking spot under the light and warm temperatures just a few degrees less radiating outwards.

http://i41.tinypic.com/96gwvq.jpg