I may be shying away from kingsnakes - Maybe some of ya'll can keep me going?

[Mikoh4792]

A few years ago, I had an albino california kingsnake that was about 4 feet. Everytime I handled it, it tried to eat me. It was never defensive, just hungry for my meat. A few weeks ago, I got another california kingsnake, this time black and white banded. It is about 3 feet and it displays the same behavior. It's not a shy snake, it's always out and about in it's cage day and night. Whenever I get near it, it goes for me like I am food. I've tried handling it a few times but there was never a handling session where it didn't try to swallow one of my fingers. Are all kingsnakes like this? I'm beginning to feel that kingsnakes just want to eat everything that moves. They are beautiful snakes, which is what attracted me to them in the first place, however the experiences I am having with them may stop me from getting more in my collection.

[StudentoReptile]

The behavior is not entirely exclusive to CA kings, but in my experience, they are the most prone to doing this than any other member of Lampropeltis getula....or arguably any other snake, for that matter! That said, I have kept a few very nice Callies.

This is my favorite species, but I will admit, mainly for their over-popularity and this behavior, CA kings are my least fav subspecies.

If you still want to hold on to kings, maybe try some of the other species. You got: eastern (chain) kings, eastern black kings, speckled kings, Florida kings, Appalachicola kings, Mexican black kings and desert kings. All are nearly identical in care to CA kings, although I will say the eastern species (easterns, FL, speckles and Applach.) get larger (over 5 ft), and may need a smidge more humidity than the western species.

If you still dig that vivid black/white coloration, there are several locale-specifics for both easterns and speckled, and some mutations of the Florida king that may be appealing.

[bcr229]

Our MBK has recently started to show the food-driven behavior described by the OP. As a result we've been hook training her. Basically, if she's getting handled for any reason other than feeding, the hook goes in first and we touch her gently with it to break her food response. Once she is out of her enclosure she's fine.

Also, we initially had been moving her to a separate feeding tub so that she could eat while we spot-cleaned her enclosure. This was a mistake on our part as she started to associate handling with eating. So, she is only fed inside of her enclosure now and we don't handle her at all on feeding days.

[jarich]

Honestly it's one of the reasons I like mine so much. They are so active and inquisitive and fearless; makes the more tame species seem boring.

[StudentoReptile]

Hook-training helps. I did have one very old LTC speckled that I used a hook with to get out. I also had my MBK latch on once, but it was one incident where I had mouse scent all over my hand and didn't wash before handling him. He only did it the one time.

[CK SandBoas]

My Grey Banded King has never once gone for my fingers or hand when i've handled him. He is very easy to handle, and to remove from his enclosure. He does have the typical King appetite and feeding response when i place his meals in his enclosure. Goes after the f/t mice with gusto, lol.

[Mikoh4792]

The behavior is not entirely exclusive to CA kings, but in my experience, they are the most prone to doing this than any other member of Lampropeltis getula....or arguably any other snake, for that matter! That said, I have kept a few very nice Callies.

This is my favorite species, but I will admit, mainly for their over-popularity and this behavior, CA kings are my least fav subspecies.

If you still want to hold on to kings, maybe try some of the other species. You got: eastern (chain) kings, eastern black kings, speckled kings, Florida kings, Appalachicola kings, Mexican black kings and desert kings. All are nearly identical in care to CA kings, although I will say the eastern species (easterns, FL, speckles and Applach.) get larger (over 5 ft), and may need a smidge more humidity than the western species.

If you still dig that vivid black/white coloration, there are several locale-specifics for both easterns and speckled, and some mutations of the Florida king that may be appealing.

If I had enough room, I would get them all. Each subspecies is interesting in their own way. I think these kingsnakes I have been buying weren't handled very much since birth. Most likely just fed and had their cage cleaned until adulthood without any handling outside of that.

[Mikoh4792]

Our MBK has recently started to show the food-driven behavior described by the OP. As a result we've been hook training her. Basically, if she's getting handled for any reason other than feeding, the hook goes in first and we touch her gently with it to break her food response. Once she is out of her enclosure she's fine.

Also, we initially had been moving her to a separate feeding tub so that she could eat while we spot-cleaned her enclosure. This was a mistake on our part as she started to associate handling with eating. So, she is only fed inside of her enclosure now and we don't handle her at all on feeding days.

How old is she? Do you think a 2 year old kingsnake could just calm down like that?(not really calm down, but be less bitey)

[Starbuck]

my female king snake started off as a doll (as a baby), then just before she turned two she turned into a monster. Then i started the hook training, and that really seemed to turn her around. She is still in total food mode anytime you go to open her viv, but she knows that once she is hooked and out of the viv, she isnt getting food. I generally hook her, put her on the bed and let her calm down for a minute, then begin handling.

Both of my kings are extremely reactive to other snake smells, is it possible your king is smelling other snakes (if you have any?).

My male king i got at about 2 years old, and while he is very food motivated, i'm much less scared of being bit by him. He is too nervous being handled to think about food, whereas my female i feel is actually too comfortable around people, that she is able to think of food still, all the time :P

[Mikoh4792]

my female king snake started off as a doll (as a baby), then just before she turned two she turned into a monster. Then i started the hook training, and that really seemed to turn her around. She is still in total food mode anytime you go to open her viv, but she knows that once she is hooked and out of the viv, she isnt getting food. I generally hook her, put her on the bed and let her calm down for a minute, then begin handling.

Both of my kings are extremely reactive to other snake smells, is it possible your king is smelling other snakes (if you have any?).

My male king i got at about 2 years old, and while he is very food motivated, i'm much less scared of being bit by him. He is too nervous being handled to think about food, whereas my female i feel is actually too comfortable around people, that she is able to think of food still, all the time :P

She definitely smells other snakes because they are all in the same room.

[formica]

some suggestions, wash you hands allot more before you handle, obv but could be smell of food on you, maybe use a very strong perfumed detergant soap, and use tongs to pick him up rather than your fingers for now (unless you use tongs for feeding, then use somethin else), keep your hands in tight fist as much as possible, so there are no fingers that look like food it can get it in its mouth, i doubt he's big enogh to swallow a fist and it knows it.

which leads me to two points

first: keep a very small perfume bottle/single stream bottle near by containing viniger and if it bites, spray it in his mouth, he's soon learn you dont taste good

If you this doesnt work, you should also consider that he's biting because he's scared not because he wants food, snakes have diffrent personalities, he might seem cool as a cucumber, but be brickin (english slang: very very scared) inside and doesnt want to show it to a potential predetor, common animal tactic when approached by something scarey, flight or fight init. i know its suggested that its typical behavour, but we have to think like the snake, is he really tryin to swollow your arm for lunch? my guess is not, and perhaps with a slower approach to handling, ie reduce amount you handle, keep hands in fists, spray when biten, and just keep your hands in enclosure all the time so he knows your hands and that they are definitly not food, slowly build up contact and thus his confidence that you aint about to make him into a sandwhich. no snake is going to around biting full grown elephants coz they are hungry are they! (analo

the sprayer thing can work great, although in my limited experience a snake will generally leave go long before you reach for the bottle when it realizes its not a pinkie its got hold of

[Mikoh4792]

some suggestions, wash you hands allot more before you handle, obv but could be smell of food on you, maybe use a very strong perfumed detergant soap, and use tongs to pick him up rather than your fingers for now (unless you use tongs for feeding, then use somethin else), keep your hands in tight fist as much as possible, so there are no fingers that look like food it can get it in its mouth, i doubt he's big enogh to swallow a fist and it knows it.

which leads me to two points

first: keep a very small perfume bottle/single stream bottle near by containing viniger and if it bites, spray it in his mouth, he's soon learn you dont taste good

If you this doesnt work, you should also consider that he's biting because he's scared not because he wants food, snakes have diffrent personalities, he might seem cool as a cucumber, but be brickin (english slang: very very scared) inside and doesnt want to show it to a potential predetor, common animal tactic when approached by something scarey, flight or fight init. i know its suggested that its typical behavour, but we have to think like the snake, is he really tryin to swollow your arm for lunch? my guess is not, and perhaps with a slower approach to handling, ie reduce amount you handle, keep hands in fists, spray when biten, and just keep your hands in enclosure all the time so he knows your hands and that they are definitly not food, slowly build up contact and thus his confidence that you aint about to make him into a sandwhich. no snake is going to around biting full grown elephants coz they are hungry are they! (analo

the sprayer thing can work great, although in my limited experience a snake will generally leave go long before you reach for the bottle when it realizes its not a pinkie its got hold of

Very sound advice. I've never heard of the vinegar thing although what usually works for me to use turn on the faucet and put the snakes head under warm water.

[formica]

edit: unnecessary additions to original post

[formica]

if the snake is biting fast and then retreating, it means its not yet ready to trust you, take things slow, get it used to you being around, and your hands being close, might take weeks, just dont rush it. it might be that it'll never like human handling, sumthing you should be prepared for, but usually they will learn to trust eventually

[Concept9]

Good morning.

Kingsnakes are no less then awesome.

I have three kingsnakes and have work with two others. Other then a baby I was training I have fever been bitten by any of my Kingsnakes. Including my Mexican Black who are known for being feisty.

In my experience Kingsnakes only really bite for a couple reasons.

1) The animal could be stressed, this could be caused by many reasons such as to much handling, not being handled correctly or possibly something is wrong with it's enclosure such as not enough hides.

I changed my substrate once on my MBK to repti-bark and for what ever reason (I,m guessing he couldn't burrow well in it) he turned pissy.

When I changed it back to aspen, he became his old self again immediately.

2) They are in food/eating mode. Hook training and clean hands should take care of this. I have never had to hook train any of mine. I do wash my hands ALL the time before entering their enclosure. I can put my hands right in and pat them or pick them up with no problems.

You mentioned you have other snakes in the room. This may be a causing a food reaction considering snakes are a favored meal for Kingsnakes in the wild.

Maybe try moving them for a few weeks and see what happens.

[Starbuck]

i agree with MBKs posts.

You can try moving your king to a diferent area of the house, leave him alone for a week, then try handling and see if there is a change.

I realize most of us just assumed it was a feeding resopnse bite; formica actually asked for clarification. If the snake is in a suspended 'S' shape, and strikes repeatedly and then retreats, it is a defensive reaction to an uncomfortable situation. If your snake is biting then holding on, it is a food issue.
When my female king bit me; she was alert and inquisitive when i took her out, and as she was nosing aorund my hands, she suddenly froze, pushed her face against the side of my hand, then opened her mouth and held on (?!?) she let go after a few seconds, but i was completely caught off guard, there wasnt anything to make me think it would happen beforehand. In later handling sessions, i was more wary of her, so i would move my hands away from her quicker, which i realize looked like prey, and she would have stronger reactions. This is when i started hook training, and building up to full handling (i.e. her head stayed on the bed or on a perch, and i handled her body and tail). I also taught my boyfriend to handle her safely, since he wasnt afraid of being bitten (stupid i know), and wouldnt react like i would. It was 90% about me building my confidence, and 10% about training the snake :P

[Mikoh4792]

Good morning.

Kingsnakes are no less then awesome.

I have three kingsnakes and have work with two others. Other then a baby I was training I have fever been bitten by any of my Kingsnakes. Including my Mexican Black who are known for being feisty.

In my experience Kingsnakes only really bite for a couple reasons.

1) The animal could be stressed, this could be caused by many reasons such as to much handling, not being handled correctly or possibly something is wrong with it's enclosure such as not enough hides.

I changed my substrate once on my MBK to repti-bark and for what ever reason (I,m guessing he couldn't burrow well in it) he turned pissy.

When I changed it back to aspen, he became his old self again immediately.

2) They are in food/eating mode. Hook training and clean hands should take care of this. I have never had to hook train any of mine. I do wash my hands ALL the time before entering their enclosure. I can put my hands right in and pat them or pick them up with no problems.

You mentioned you have other snakes in the room. This may be a causing a food reaction considering snakes are a favored meal for Kingsnakes in the wild.

Maybe try moving them for a few weeks and see what happens.

i agree with MBKs posts.

You can try moving your king to a diferent area of the house, leave him alone for a week, then try handling and see if there is a change.

I realize most of us just assumed it was a feeding resopnse bite; formica actually asked for clarification. If the snake is in a suspended 'S' shape, and strikes repeatedly and then retreats, it is a defensive reaction to an uncomfortable situation. If your snake is biting then holding on, it is a food issue.
When my female king bit me; she was alert and inquisitive when i took her out, and as she was nosing aorund my hands, she suddenly froze, pushed her face against the side of my hand, then opened her mouth and held on (?!?) she let go after a few seconds, but i was completely caught off guard, there wasnt anything to make me think it would happen beforehand. In later handling sessions, i was more wary of her, so i would move my hands away from her quicker, which i realize looked like prey, and she would have stronger reactions. This is when i started hook training, and building up to full handling (i.e. her head stayed on the bed or on a perch, and i handled her body and tail). I also taught my boyfriend to handle her safely, since he wasnt afraid of being bitten (stupid i know), and wouldnt react like i would. It was 90% about me building my confidence, and 10% about training the snake :P

if the snake is biting fast and then retreating, it means its not yet ready to trust you, take things slow, get it used to you being around, and your hands being close, might take weeks, just dont rush it. it might be that it'll never like human handling, sumthing you should be prepared for, but usually they will learn to trust eventually

Basically when I take her out she slithers freely through my hands. She doesn't move carefully or in a wary manner. She just a very outgoing snake and does what she wants. If she was being shy or defensive I would know. No S shapes, hissing, musking..etc. She doesn't care that she's being handled. She just moved around for a bit and when she reaches my hand or fingers she kind of bumps into it with the tip of her mouth, opens, bites, and starts constricting.

I'm definately gonna have to try that hook training method. It might just help. If not, I am going to assume that she was never really handled up until this point or that is just her nature.

[bcr229]

How old is she? Do you think a 2 year old kingsnake could just calm down like that?(not really calm down, but be less bitey)
I'd guess she's 18 months old. I think she picked up the behavior because for a while the only reason we were picking her up was to feed her, and then she was placed in another plastic tub. So, we inadvertently taught her that handling = eating. Now we're conditioning her so that she is only fed in her enclosure, and if she's hooked and handled she's not fed.

Also it's not a defensive/scared response, it's definitely food driven. Each time she nailed me she grabbed and held. When she got my pinky she tried working her way around to the smaller end so she could start swallowing. The "velcro monster" let go quickly when I waved a cotton ball that had been soaked in white vinegar in front of her nose.

[Mikoh4792]

I'd guess she's 18 months old. I think she picked up the behavior because for a while the only reason we were picking her up was to feed her, and then she was placed in another plastic tub. So, we inadvertently taught her that handling = eating. Now we're conditioning her so that she is only fed in her enclosure, and if she's hooked and handled she's not fed.

Also it's not a defensive/scared response, it's definitely food driven. Each time she nailed me she grabbed and held. When she got my pinky she tried working her way around to the smaller end so she could start swallowing. The "velcro monster" let go quickly when I waved a cotton ball that had been soaked in white vinegar in front of her nose.

Exactly the same for me. My king never strikes at me. She only bites one she gets close to my hand and fingers. She stops for a second, opens her mouth, and latches on.

[Terranaut]

Sorry but I didn't read all the posts so if my answer is the same as someone elses I am sorry. It sounds like a feeding response to me. Clean your hands with soap before handling. Thats it. They eat other snakes so the scent of just about anything will trigger a feed response.

[Ourobouros]

Don't feed your snake in its tank. Feed it in a separate feeding tank or area. This will set the expectation that you're feeding it only when it goes to that place instead of each time you open the tank. When feeding also use tongs to put in the food. Snakes often miss or mistake your hand for the food.

Also hesitation when picking up your snake may make it nervous. I worked at a petsmart with a very aggressive California kingsnake and no one there (coworkers) wanted to take it out. They always asked me to get it out. ^_^

[Starbuck]

Don't feed your snake in its tank. Feed it in a separate feeding tank or area. This will set the expectation that you're feeding it only when it goes to that place instead of each time you open the tank. When feeding also use tongs to put in the food. Snakes often miss or mistake your hand for the food.

Also hesitation when picking up your snake may make it nervous. I worked at a petsmart with a very aggressive California kingsnake and no one there (coworkers) wanted to take it out. They always asked me to get it out. ^_^

It is not necessary to feed in a separate enclosure. I feed all of my snakes in their tanks, and have zero problems with food aggression now (since i started hook-conditioning).

I do agree that sometimes our movements when we are nervous/wary of getting bitten appear similar to prey, and can elicit a food response. If it would help, consider a light, clean work glove. This will mask your smell, and most importantly, build your confidence since you wont fear being bitten. Gradually you can phase out the glove.

[Ourobouros]

Agreed that a separate tank isn't necessary but I find it easier and comforting this way. Don't have to worry about the bedding being accidentally consumed or having a separate feeding dish in there. Plus it creates a nice routine for me and the snake. While she eats I clean zee tank. =D

[StudentoReptile]

When feeding snakes in separate containers, I am generally against it, especially for new arrivals and picky/finicky snakes (like ball pythons tend to be). It is my opinion that taking the snake out of its enclosure where it is familiar, stressing it out by handling it, putting it into a new environment where it may feel more uncomfortable, etc. is not conducive to getting it to feed. I find this especially true for ball pythons.

In most of my experience, I have seen no noticeable difference in temperament feeding inside the enclosure vs in a separate container; docile snakes have remained docile, and aggressive/overly-defensive/eager feeders are just as likely to go after your fingers no matter where they are being fed.

That said, I have had a few grown LTC/WC kings that were grumpy/iffy where I felt more comfortable hooking them out of their enclosure and putting in a separate container. Obviously, they had no issue eating anywhere, but it did get them out of the habit of launching themselves out of their cages whenever I opened the door.

Speaking with a few retic keepers, I do advocate the hook-training or "paper towel" method of getting snakes out of the "food/cage aggressive" mode; just take something that is not associated with food, and whenever you open the enclosure, bump the snake lightly on the body and/or snout with said object (some use a roll of paper towels, some use a hook)...anything to let the snake know they are not going to get fed. I have observed others using this method, and I have employed a few times, and I would say most of the time, it works. When the cage door opens, the snake is automatically in "feed mode" but when you tap with the object, it kinda flips that switch off and the snake mellows out long enough to pick it up out of its enclosure.

Bottom line: every individual snake is different and every keeper is different. Be flexible with your animals, but remember the animals aren't as adaptable as you are. I feed some snakes live, and others frozen (nowadays, it's simply what is more available to me on feeding day). Some I just toss a rat in the cage, and others I take out and feed.

[Ourobouros]

Snakes do have unique little personalities and should be catered to. Um one thing I've never seen before.. My snake got 2 pinkie mice last Thursday and the first went down slowly but the second one she destroyed in 45 seconds. Then she put her nose to the bottom up against the plastic.. Opening and closing her mouth like she wanted more food. But she's so tiny..