CBOI are we not a community????

[Leona]

As part of sSnakeSs.com community are we not here for the betterment of our reptiles, each other and ourselves?
I was reading the post from tHe GiNo --Why was my post deleted? I never got a chance to read it the original post before it was deleted. My question is since sSnakeSs no longer has the CBOI where do we go to inquire about a person/business? If you had a bad dealing with a person/business would it not be the thing to do to let other people in the herp community know what happened to you? This way you give the "heads up" to your fellow herpers if they choose to do business with that person. I think having the CBOI just might keep people a little more honest and up front when doing business. If the person/business feels he/they did nothing-wrong then he/they can reply and give their side of the story, because we all know there are two sides to every story. Just the same if someone is honest and up front it should also be told. Again as part of this herping community I think we should be there for each other as friends are. Another thing if a post starts an argument so be it, just like T.V. if you don't like the show change the channel (if you don't like the topic don't read the post.) I've notice since there is no CBOI there has been a lot of new unknown dealers coming on board. Is it a question of legality that you no longer have CBOI? How can sSnakeSs get into any legal trouble when someone states their opinion and signs their name to the statement?
I hope you take this post into consideration and start the CBOI again so we as a community can share the good with the bad.
Leona
P.S. I hope this doesn't get deleted before a few opinions are heard.

[vincenzo]

i agree . ordering online makes me nervous to start with but if there is a background on someone then it would make me more comfortable ordering from them. just my two cents

[marisa]

Someone posted this idea somewhere but I can't remember who or where....

Having to do with a BOI people say that not only can sites be liable but one jerk customer could ruin a small business because someone posted on a BOI. But instead of taking away the chance for the real "bad guys" to be brough to light, the person suggested breeders start using a "Recommdations" list of customers who will give an review to those seeking one at their site. This way even if one erk posts something about them on a BOI, people can come and see the breeders side of the story/operation as well.

Just thought it was a cool idea.
Marisa

[jason h]

when the cboi was here jeff had been contacted by many lawyers threatening to sue because someone got slandered here, jeff runs this site at like 250 usd per month with very little outside funds and really cant afford lawyers fees court costs etc. on top of that,plus many of the posts that go on there end up being pulled off because it turns into a fight with ppl swearing and flaming each other, yea this site is for the betterment of the comunity but in a positive way we dont like to see the members start an all out war because someone got a skinny bp from joe blow because those type of arguements not only stay in the boi but tend to bleed out into the other forums where we try are hardest to keep it friendly and fun for everyone,thus the post furtherdown about NO Negative posts and no slandering and i believe GiNos post bordered on slanderis so that is why it was removed,I hope everyone understands this rambling and we can all move on to enjoy the forums we have and not worry about the ones we dont there are many boi sites out there if you need to make an inquiry that hve the funds to pay the legal costs.
so injoy, be happy ,have fun!!!!!

[sSNAKESs.com]

Thank you Jay! I have went over this many times and the above post explained it perfectly. Our server bill is $250USD and this site has only made more then 250USD 3 months of 12 it has been opened. I am paying for this site out of my pocket each and every month, and with next to no money coming in I cant and am not willing to pay for lawyers fees or deal with the headaches to top it all off. If and when the site actually brings in enough money where i could cover these costs then i would have no problem reinstating the CBOI. Some people may think that i am making money off of the site, because queensnake makes ALOT of money, but i am not charging for anything, and there are next to no donations and rarely does someone ever sign up for photo hosting. We have a few banner customers but those were yearly subscriptions and that money is long spent on server bills not to mention the hundreds of USD spent on the software that is run on the site. I am not complaining i am just saying if you guys want "your" community to progress then i suggest you start buying photo hositng or making donations because this community of 1400 members doesnt even give back enough to pay for the server bills. Its really at the point where if we dont get support from the community members then ssnakess.com will have no choice but to start charging for classifieds etc, the more member who join the more bandwidth / space is used and then our server will have to upgraded yet again. I started the site on a $29.99USD hosting account and over the last year i have had to upgrade to a dedicated unix box, which is costing me $250USD a month to keep speeds up and for you guys to enjoy the community. Maybe its time for the community to give back. I dont like posting messages like this but i have went over this numorous times and i have seen in teh chat people talking about how much money the site must be making. But the reality of it is, what the site is creating is debt, and it really hurts to see people saying that i am getting rich of of it when the truth of it is, its taking a loss.

[Linds]

There is a fine line between slander and libel. tHe GiNo's post initial thread didn't state any facts, but all sorts of heresay - saying you heard someone is a bad person in general, and bad in business, is considered slander. He said she said is not factual evidence, it is gossip/rumour. It is fine to post an inquiry about someone, just please be careful. I mean, if you are looking for info on a Canadian breeder/business you can't really go to the BOI looking for answers, but when writing posts take into consideration the sSnakeSs.com and any legality issues ;) Jeff works very hard to keep up happy, we don't want to cause him any headaches ;)

[sSNAKESs.com]

If you would like to make a donation, you can paypal it to the site at support@ssnakess.com , If 250 of our 1400 members gave 1$ a month then we wouldnt have to pay for the server fees and the community would pay for itself, 5$ every 6 months or whatever you can afford to spare. For something you spend hours on each day, is 1$ a month really to hard to afford to give???? I have bitten my tongue for to long, so there it is, its all layed out on the line for everyone to see. the $50USD that comes in average buy the community a $200USD debt, which really doesnt get the community anything, not to mention the 300$ canadian i just shelled out to make up the differance. LOL If you want to help "your" community, give $1.00 a month, it seems small but it will actually go a long way.

Paypal: support@ssnakess.com

If you would like to donate in another way, just PM me.

[Snakey Acres]

I've never used paypal how do we use it.I'm fairly new to this site but woulden't mind supporting it.I'd hate to see it go the way of so many other sites so that only larger breeders can afford to post classifieds ect.

[tHeGiNo]

There is a fine line between slander and libel. tHe GiNo's post initial thread didn't state any facts, but all sorts of heresay - saying you heard someone is a bad person in general, and bad in business, is considered slander. He said she said is not factual evidence, it is gossip/rumour. It is fine to post an inquiry about someone, just please be careful. I mean, if you are looking for info on a Canadian breeder/business you can't really go to the BOI looking for answers, but when writing posts take into consideration the sSnakeSs.com and any legality issues Jeff works very hard to keep up happy, we don't want to cause him any headaches

My lord lol I had no idea so many people would take this negatively. I posted what others had said so that people can contradict what others had said and say NOT ONLY IS HE A REPUTABLE BREEDER, BUT WOW YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE CONDITION THE ANIMAL WAS IN. You know what I mean? And again, if someone screws someone over, I think that person has the right to tell the whole world don't you think! I just thought I could find out some damn information before I go pay 1200 dollars. Also I had no clue about the lawsuit that had almost occurred but again I think that is bullcrap. As long as the statements are true I do not see why you can't say it. Howver I now know the consequences of doing so and I apologize so please get off my throat. Sheesh....

[tHeGiNo]

Also there is one more thing I have to say, everything the first poster said:

I was reading the post from tHe GiNo --Why was my post deleted? I never got a chance to read it the original post before it was deleted. My question is since sSnakeSs no longer has the CBOI where do we go to inquire about a person/business? If you had a bad dealing with a person/business would it not be the thing to do to let other people in the herp community know what happened to you? This way you give the "heads up" to your fellow herpers if they choose to do business with that person. I think having the CBOI just might keep people a little more honest and up front when doing business. If the person/business feels he/they did nothing-wrong then he/they can reply and give their side of the story, because we all know there are two sides to every story. Just the same if someone is honest and up front it should also be told. Again as part of this herping community I think we should be there for each other as friends are. Another thing if a post starts an argument so be it, just like T.V. if you don't like the show change the channel (if you don't like the topic don't read the post.) I've notice since there is no CBOI there has been a lot of new unknown dealers coming on board. Is it a question of legality that you no longer have CBOI? How can sSnakeSs get into any legal trouble when someone states their opinion and signs their name to the statement?

Well freakin said....I also want to add that if an individual conducts himself/herself in bad business practices, then he/she deserves what comes to them: [B]A BAD REP[B/]. We are in a world of opinions and I think we have the right to state them. What ever happened to freedom of speech?

[Shane Tesser]

Snakey Acres...Thank you first off, i believe you would just have to go to www.paypal.com and open an account, it is free to do so. Its members like you that will help keep us going, and keep this site free.

First off, i would like to thank all the people that have given, i think that got a little bit left out, there has been members who have, you know who you are, and we really appreciate your efforts.

As for the cboi, yes, the fact that we provide the medium for you to "inquire" or as Linds put, create "heresay" for, or about someone makes the site directly liable, and can be named in a lawsuit, welcome to reality, that is how it works.

Related to that...i was just wondering where ppl would think legal representation costs would come from to defend the site as is? I can tell you where...one legal matter, say goodbye to the site. If you still think this is undesirable, please contact me yourself, i would be more than happy to have our site lawyers contact you to draw up documentations to have the cboi re-opened and put directly in your name. Then you can have the lawyers call you, you can give statements, you can hear the threats, and you can police the threads for yourself

Jeff has mentioned that the cost for the server outcosts the price of actual credits we get each month, but that is only the tip of the iceburg. I would like to give somemore if i could

To date, from protecting his own site, protecting members, the jealousy of others etc..jeff has been given virus's that have completely wiped out his hard drive. The cost varies virus to virus, sometimes its only one or two programs, other times it has been the entire hard drive, either way, it is very costly. I think ppl forget about the man hours in total. A site like this takes Jeff two-three hours a day...thats on top of his full time job. And that time, is only time to work on the site, upgrades etc. Now factor in, the fifty plus emails he gets. Emails he doesnt need to have, ie..how do you post a picture (when the answers are in the forum), and anyone who ever has sent one of those mails knows that Jeff responds....that takes up more of his time. So factor in your daily routine, and see if you could afford that many hours programming? The shows, we get there...we have a booth, we meet and greet our community with plans to take the show further on the road to meet more members...plus we always strive to give something to members when we see them, again where does that cost come from....i can tell you as i have paid for members gifts several times myself. We would like to hit the u.s. shows, more Canadian shows, Calgary, Ottawa, etc, again..those trips come out of our pockets. When we take the pictures of the shows and edit them, the ones that everyone loves, it takes roughly six hours for me to do so, but i do it cause i know ppl love it...that is labour that i only have to do once every three months, i cant imagine doing that every couple of days as jeff does.

Recently i put a post up about what to do with our first anniversary, and within a couple of weeks i had to put it down, why...because to be honest all i saw was post about prizes we should give, parties we should throw, and generally, give, give, give, i hope everyone can understand now why none of this will happen. I have tried....tried to get t-shirts made, jackets, hats...ANYTHING!!!, but guess what...we cannot afford it.

Many ppl now are starting to take advantage of the on-line store...again...look at the cheap prices...this should show you that this is to support the community, not to become rich...so are we so bad in doing so?

To top it off, we have done more recent upgrades..ie..a new chat server that can handle the amount of ppl that now enjoy it....yes the server is free..but there is still a time factor involved in doing the change over..and i can tell you, it has gone incredibly smooth. Not to mention the amount of hours that myself, Trace, Daan, Matt, and Jeff put into that chat to make sure everyone is comfortable, not bothered by outside ppl, and given a pleasurable experience there in general.

I am going to leave this thread as is..i will leave a couple of key thoughts before i do so...they are: How many other sites have this many Free perks, how many others upgrade as ofthen, how many others have such a user friendly site, how many others give such an incredible chat room...that has actual ppl using it. How many others have the actual webmaster go to the shows to greet ppl, how many will let you talk to the webmaster directly about concerns, and to top it all off....in reality, how many others would give out over $400 canadian a month for ppl who they really dont know outside of the site, to have a place to go to each and everyday, and be actively apart of his own site everyday. I think it may be time to give back....please remember that next time you buy a cup of coffee for 1.25, remember what a dollar could do for your community..while he can still afford to have it! Shane.

[marisa]

Out of curiosity, my boyfriend works in the computer industry....with exact the situation you have here, servers.

About the viruses....I don't understand why you guys are having even one problem with them? If its a virus on the server your website is hosted on then there is nothing Jeff can personally do unless he is serve admin,,,,,,(if its a microsoft server) but the server admin should be able to 100% keep the server free of any virus and if he can't he doesn't know enough about being a server admin....(no offense)

If he is getting these viruses at him home computer than isn't Norton taking care of them ? There are a couple of virus's that will disable a anti-virus program (Klez and Circam and a couple others) but those can be taken care of by downloading a simple removal tool......usually at symantec.com They are virus specific.

Sorry but my boyfriend was just curious as to why he should ever get a virus on a server...because as he takes care of servers, he totally locks his down and has never had a virus. ????

My boyfriend says if you guys have further trouble with the servers getting viruses he will be more than happy to help as he does work with a *very* well known internet company here in Ontario as a Network Service specialist.

Marisa
P.S. If you guys would be interested in running a LInux or Unix server, you would have less problems. And these programs are free.

[marisa]

If this is running on a microsoft operating system with IIS then the suggestion of a Unix/Linux system with apache would clear up your problems, and best of all free to do.


Marisa

[beth wallbank]

I am not one to butt into things by nature but now I will....This is Canada, not UK or USA. Jeff has done something special here, for US, the herpers in Canada and surrounding countries. Jeff pulled the BOI for financial reasons, due to legal reasons. I think that each and everyone of US would have done the same thing.
Honestly people, there is no need for a BOI, not for the small amount of herpers there are in this country. Heck, by word of mouth alone is enough to know the good, the bad, and the ugly on each and every one of us. I have heard enough 'hear say' without the BOI to know who is doing what, and the size of underwear to buy. This community of people is quite close knit, and it seems that if there is a bad apple on the tree, everyone is already aware of it. We all know who to be aware of, and who to go to for what. And if we don't, we know who to go to that will. The BOI when it was on this site, was nothing more than a kleenex box in action. People were posting garbage to vent for the silliest of things, nothing pertaining to reptiles on most occasions. People were crying the blues for someone not selling snakes to them, or the lizard was missing a scale. Come off it people. Jeff is not a babysitter, nor should he have to pay the daycare fees. The breeders that are out to screw someone, are already burning thier candles at both ends, and we are all aware of these breeders. Those who are reputable and have something good going for them, have enough people posting pictures and ideas on here to benefit all of us, and to me, this is better than hear say anyday. Seeing the 'facts' and how pleased people have been with thier purchases is advertising in itself.
I am sorry if this has angered some of you, but come off it. We are all adults, and this is not a play ground. People with the 'bad reps' have done this to themselves 'without' the help of a BOI.
As for Jeff and the moderators that monitor this site, thank you for creating this site, as it has sprouted into somewhere positive to visit, and with the number of new visitors, the numbers speak for themselves. You are doing a fine job, and keep up the good work.

[tHeGiNo]

Ok before I say anything, let me make sure all of you understand this, read carefully now: EVERYTHING I AM ABOUT TO SAY IS NOT DIRECTED AT SSNAKESS, IT IS DIRECTED AT THE LAWS Make sure your understand that before going on. Alright, so you said the following:

As for the cboi, yes, the fact that we provide the medium for you to "inquire" or as Linds put, create "heresay" for, or about someone makes the site directly liable, and can be named in a lawsuit, welcome to reality, that is how it works.

Alright, so in saying this, your telling me that (this is a fictional character) Bob Doodlehopper can sue the City of Toronto because they gave me the medium to tell someone at the bus stop that Bob Doodlehopper keeps his animals in poor conditions? Or on smaller notes: I am at Tim Hortons, and I am sitting with a friend. I tell him that Bob Doodlehopper conducts himself in bad business practices. Bob Doodlehopper can now sue Tim Hortons for giving me the medium to say that. Or, and finally, I am now at a friends house. I tell her that Bob Doodlehopper is known to screw people over, and that she shouldn't refer to him for snakes. Now Bob Doodlehopper can sue my friend because she gave me the means to say that? Now reading what I said, I know what at least one of you will say. Posting it here is saying it to many people. So now let me provide you with one more example. I spray paint on the side of a huge building the following: BOB DOODLEHOPPER TREATS HIS ANIMALS POORLY, AND MAKES A BUSINESS OUT OF SCREWING PEOPLE OVER. Bob Doodlehopper can now suethe city of Toronto for posting that? That is a crock of BS. Now before any of you post a reply make sure you read this, AGAIN: THIS WAS DIRECTED AT THE LAWS AND NOT SSNAKESS.

Now, I would be more then happy to donate five bucks a month, PM me with more info. As for working on the site, three hours a day. Well I am a webdesigner and would be more then happy then to assist you wherever possible. As for editing the hundreds of pictures of the show, I can do that too! If you every need my help let me know. So that can take a burden off your load, now what? Take this into consideration, and thank you for your time.

[V.aw]

Alot of people seem to jump and say slander for everything. I didnt see any slander in gino's post.. He asked for clarification of what he was told. And how his current situation was relating to the ones hes heard. I didnt see any slander there. If someone runs a business theres very little chance of leaving a positive impression on every single customer. Its business, not everyone is going to love you. I think people on this board need to realise this before jumping to conclusions.

Like my posts about port credit. I didnt even jump to any conclusions, i just said my experiences, and TRIED to change the subject by asking for some positivity instead of all the negative responses, but people like to cut throats on this board it seems. And all i see is that happening again, with this new inquiry board.

You cannot eliminate the arguement aspect from a discussion, not everybody has the same opinions, and with as many users that do post here not everyone will have the same opinion.

So before expecting everyone who posts here (iam not referring to you Jeff, you have legalities to deal with) But to the others who do post here, just any user.. Try to think it through. Everyone seems to think people are personally attacking others, when in reality maybe these things really did happen, and why should they go ignored?

And for the record, Mike Vince has good animals! and iam sure Grant does too, We all love animals, and we all have our experiences not everyone else has gone through!! so stop the stupidity.

[tHeGiNo]

If someone runs a business theres very little chance of leaving a positive impression on every single customer. Its business, not everyone is going to love you. I think people on this board need to realise this before jumping to conclusions.


EXACTLY!!!!

[V.aw]

Oh, just to add. I Think the buyer should be able to make his or her own mistakes based on the opinions people post. If they are all negative, they are negative for a reason. I recall a post about Mice4You ripping people off by Corey Woods. Corey is well respected and iam sure most people will listen to him. I Didn't see slander involved there. But when Gino says something pretty well along the same lines its slander.......

[tHeGiNo]

OMG V.aW thank you, thank you very much. That couldn't be any closer to the truth. I think if anything on this board should be changed it is the bias remarks of so many members. Now, for Beth Wallbank, I appreciate your input but I feel you couldn't be more wrong from the truth.

Honestly people, there is no need for a BOI, not for the small amount of herpers there are in this country. Heck, by word of mouth alone is enough to know the good, the bad, and the ugly on each and every one of us. I have heard enough 'hear say' without the BOI to know who is doing what, and the size of underwear to buy. This community of people is quite close knit, and it seems that if there is a bad apple on the tree, everyone is already aware of it.

Well excuse me for being new into the herp community. Unfortunately I do not know all the big guys like Bob Clark or Corey Woods to tell me who and who isn't reputable. I don't know about you, but I do not have 1200 dollars to throw away. If I am going to spend 1200 dollars I want to make sure my money is going to the right person and someone who will give the quality I am looking for. Also yes we know who the reputable breeders are, Chris Marshell, Corey Woods for example. However what if there are smaller breeders with good reps who will sell the animal for cheeper but with the same quality? Do you understand where I am coming from?

[V.aw]

I Agree and disagree with you Beth.

The BOI is good, but as you said with so little herpers in Canada there is room for improvement, you cannot just pass judgement on your first impression, I even admit to being guilty of that.

I think it's good however, to allow people to make their own assumptions. I feel the BOI shouldn't just be about good posts, it should be about bad ones too. It's up to the business to contact their angry parties, and find out why, in order to improve their ethics. I personally would want the raw truth about why my client was so angry, rather than pleading ignorance and continuing.
it's up too the client wether or not they go back, and its up to the reader to make their decision based on the posts they read. (and the posts would be gone if most of the distributors who had bad remarks made contacted the annoyed parties to see how they could improve their views on them.)

Just my two cents.

[Jamie]

Jeff and Shane, you guys are totally right. I don't understand how people can argue that we NEED a CBOI, it was abused then and will be abused if it is reintroduced and we all know it. It was always "I heard" or "she said" and that goes back to the telephone game where yes the truth does get distorted from one person to the next. Jeff does a great job and I would never argue any of his decisions, he puts in the hours and effort and deals with everyones crap to give us a great friendly site. I am glad Jeff and Shane both came out and told us 1400 members how it really is, in real life Jeff is supporting everything about this site both finacially and running a good canadian site. Seriously it is time to step up as a community and help take some of the workload off these few people like Jeff and Shane and a few others out there...we tend to take free sites (like this one)for granted and I could only imagine how far the couple $$ a month would go if even 25% of us chipped in. Ever since I have been here the site has done nothing but improve and I can't say enough good things about Jeff, Shane and all the Mods and members who make this place what it is. I could only imagine how much work has gone into this community. This thread has opened my eyes and hope it might open some more. Just had to let these guys know they are going a good job...seems they are always defending themselves or taking slack from us...WHY?
Personally Gino when I make a big purchase I don't come on here stating something negative that someone else said. I do MY own research and make MY own conclusion, if you heard something bad with somebody then don't deal with them. But try to make your own conclusion, someone before you could have been one of those people who just can't be pleased or jeliousy could come into play. Talk to mike vince, e-mail him and establish a repore with him and see how things work out...don't come here and air SOMEONE ELSES dirty loundry. The reason your thread was taken out and not coreys it is because Corey got ripped off from the dealer directly and you heard about someone who had a negative expereince. I have heard more bad stuff anout Corey Woods but I think he would be the last person to rip anybody off, he has specific terms and has the right to choose who he deals with...the buyer doesn't have the right to buy a snake off him and then that is followed with a negative post about Mr Woods.

Again this is why we don't have a CBOI and this thread which was about the site is now turning into why the CBOI is gone...a hissy fit. WHO CARES how the law works...Jeff fixed it to PROTECT the site. If you can't handle it go somewhere else...I remeber that last guy who made a big goodbye because we took away his "freedom of speech" but really put that to the test and try to threaten a judge or say "I have a bomb" in a airport. What are you gonna say we have lost our freedom of speach? People have to regulate what is said and I am 100% behind SsnakesS.com and there desicions

Again the thread is not focusing on the good of the site but the furthest thing from it. Keep up the good work

[V.aw]

So the BOI was taken out once, why is it back? It's the same thing with new rules about only stating ONLY positive feedback on breeders. Whats the point?

[tHeGiNo]

Hehe I am glad there are people like you so I can have things to argue about. A good old argue is healthy now and then, gets the mind thinking. Alright well lets see, you said:

Personally Gino when I make a big purchase I don't come on here stating something negative that someone else said. I do MY own research and make MY own conclusion, if you heard something bad with somebody then don't deal with them. But try to make your own conclusion, someone before you could have been one of those people who just can't be pleased or jeliousy could come into play. Talk to mike vince, e-mail him and establish a repore with him and see how things work out...don't come here and air SOMEONE ELSES dirty loundry.


Well sometimes I really really wonder whether people think about what they are typing, or if they just let their fingers press the buttons. Aren't we a community here? What do communities do? WE HELP EACHOTHER. I thought I could come to "this wonderful community where everybody is so nice and helpful" to get a little advice, but apparantly not! I was doing my research. I was researching if he had a good rep or not. However you said it yourself, some people just say negative things directed at an individual for revenge or to spite them, possibly from jealousy. That is why I can here to seek out others opinions. Again think about what you are writing before you write, you contradicted yourself. First you say if I hear something bad about someone, then don't deal with them. Then you say some people say bad things about others due to jealousy. So how fair is it that the breeder looses a customer because someone stated false facts. I was hoping I could come here and weigh out the good and the bad and decifer a decision from there. Also why the hell would I e-mail Vince first, what am I going to say: "Hey there Vince, how is it going. I was wondering whether you had a good reputation or not. I was also wondering if you keep your animals in good condition and if you have ever ripped anyone off" Ya, that makes a WHOLE lot of sense. Also no one is taking the site "for advantage." Please explain how anyone is taking the site for advantage. It is here as an informational resource isnt it? And that is exactly what I was trying to use it for. AGAIN this is getting me real mad so let me say it ONE MORE TIME. EVERYTHING I SAID WAS NOT DIRECTED AT JEFF OR SSNAKESS AT ALL, IT WAS DIRECTED AT THE SUBJECT ITSELF WHATEVER THAT MAY BE!! Please stop focusing on how good of people Jeff and the rest of the staff are at ssnakess, we all know what they are doing for us and the great people they are. Please think of what you are accussing me of, all I was saying in the last post is that it is not fair that ssnakess should be blamed. I just feel if someone conducts in bad business practices, then the actions that follow that are deserved! END OF STORY! Now please, stop this.

[tHeGiNo]

And again, if you would just take the damn time to READ WHAT I SAID you would see I apologized for stating exactly what others have said. I realize what I did wrong and I apologized, however for the 25th time I SAID IT SO PEOPLE COULD CONTRADICT WHAT OTHERS HAD SAID. Dammit, people, seriously. I am not going to write another word on this and I hope it gets closed soon.

[sSNAKESs.com]

Shane! WOW, i just came home and read your novel, thanks alot man it means alot to me!! The LAST thing i wanted to do is ask for support, but it REALLY, i mean REALLY makes me mad when people who dont support try and tell me how it should be run. Jamie, Beth, etc, thank you so much for your kind words, its means alot to me to know that people dont take what they have forgranted.

Tim, Vincenzo, thank you for your donations!! they wont go unnoticed and they will be put to good use!

[sSNAKESs.com]

V.AW: Man if your going to rebuttle with points, please make them valid, the mice4you post was removed just as theginos was. If you agree to disagree then please at least rebuttle with valid points.

[V.aw]

Jeff that post was up for awhile. I dont really look through a history of posts before i post.. you removed his right away.

[MisterSinister]

I have just read through this whole mess of posts, v.aw and tHEGiNO, why must you flood even this thread with your stupid remarks. If i was the webmaster of this site i would kick you. It has already been said the board of inquiry or whatever its called is not coming back, why must you 2 simpletons continue to fill the thread with your nonsense.

Jeff or Shane, i dont post much but what you are saying makes complete sense to me. I will send you 5$ through paypal.

[V.aw]

sinister, i dont see where i did anything wrong.. I just added a view, they weren't stupid remarks. And it was not out of line, it was all to do with the BOI. I'am sending jeff a donation, which i pm'd him about. So here we go again, with people being negative with others who dont share the same opinion. Sorry if it offended you. (for whatever reason it did?)

[sSNAKESs.com]

Originally posted by V.aw
So the BOI was taken out once, why is it back? It's the same thing with new rules about only stating ONLY positive feedback on breeders. Whats the point?

Please re read the rules of the Inquiry Post... You can say whatever you want to say to people via email who made the inquiries... I dont care what you have to say wether its positive or negative. The forum works like this...

- Someone makes a inquiry
- you have experience with the person in the thread
- you EMAIL or PM him whatever your experiences were wether good or bad.

[tHeGiNo]

LOL before anything else starts would you please delete this. However I will not go without saying the following: Mister Sinister, all I wanted was to find out a little bit of info before I spent some money. What in the world is wrong with that. Most of the people who posted on this thread do not even know what happened, so they shouldn't be accusing me of anything or making judgements. Stupid remarks? I do not think so, I was defending myself would be more like it. And it really shows how much you know. It is not coming back? It was just added take a look at the main page or the forum. I do not know you and I do not think it is fair that you call me a "simpleton" or get a bad impression on myself due to this thread. If you would notice, I was stating a healthy opinion that the laws were not fair, then stated I would donate money to the site. What did I do wrong, please let me know. Then I get accused by Linds of slander. I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET OPINIONS. I didn't know it would cause any harm, I wasn't thinking when I typed it. I then tried to explain myself. And I thought I did. Shane Tesser then posted about the workload on ssnakess. Again I offered to help. I then reflected on Beths post, and how what she was saying was wrong. If you may sinister, explain how they are stupid. I would like to say much much more but I wish to end this war. Thank you very much. However, "stupid remarks" "simpletons" I think you need to get your facts straight. I have done nothing worth being kicked. You do not even know what happened. I understand what your trying to do, defend the minority, but please again before you make rude comments to myself or anyone else get your facts straight please.

[teK_n9ine]

You want others to treat you with respect yet you say things like this?

Originally posted by tHeGiNo
And again, if you would just take the damn time to READ WHAT I SAID you would see I apologized for stating exactly what others have said. I realize what I did wrong and I apologized, however for the 25th time I SAID IT SO PEOPLE COULD CONTRADICT WHAT OTHERS HAD SAID. Dammit, people, seriously. I am not going to write another word on this and I hope it gets closed soon.

Notice the end where you say you're not going to write another word on this, yet you're still posting. Put a sock in it already, leave it alone and stop flooding the forum.

I haven't been a member here as long as some of you, but from what i have seen, this is a very tight knit community, everyone seems to work very hard to make it all work. I dont personally know Jeff, or anyone else on this site for that matter, but everyone seems to treat everyone very well with a few exceptions, which will happen no matter where you go. Maybe instead of looking for arguments you could put more of your time here in a more positive manner "TheGino".. I leave with your wonderful words, just incase you decide to say you weren't looking for an argument.

Hehe I am glad there are people like you so I can have things to argue about. A good old argue is healthy now and then, gets the mind thinking.

[sSNAKESs.com]

Ok guys seriously... this is the 5th topic ive closed in the general discussion in 5 days.. Im beginning to wonder if keeping the general discussion forum open is even worth mine or anyones time.

[marisa]

I am not sure who "i mean REALLY makes me mad when people who dont support try and tell me how it should be run" was for but, I wasn't trying to tell you that things weren't going right myself...

but I read about those viruses and wanted to share my boyfriends help as he takes care of your (Ontario) internet connection and how they run through servers I thought he might know how to stop you from getting a virus again on your website.

Although I am sure you posted that about the bantering. Frankly if people want a CBOI then they can make it on their own site. That's my opinion.

Marisa

[sSNAKESs.com]

Marisa, that was no way intended towards you... It was intended for the ones who are never happy with anything... They complain about the CBOI then when its removed they complain and then i reinstate it with a few differant features to keep me out of court and the site alive and they still argue and complain. LOL!!

As for the viruses. Shane was reffering to my home computer which i should have had better protection on but got fried from an irate member who was banned from the forums in its early stages of life. The server it self has more protection then Mr. Bush itself and it is a apache box! :) Althought if i get stuck with some of this darn unix stuff i will be sure to email you so dont be surprised if i do! ;)

[marisa]

O.k. well sweet deals then. Glad things are going well now. Yeah he was just reading that and he was like "damn thats ridiculous having a virus wiping crap out, theres no need for that, write this down!" LOL

Jeff feel free to email: mattl@rogers.com directly and he will answer no problems!

Marisa

[unknownclown]

OK Im new here so please exscuse me if I ask what a "CBOI" ?

Also I Moderate a carnivorous plant forum that goes thru the same thing all the time. There are alot of legalities involved not to mention its just not niceeto step on toes in public and who is to say if the person doing the slandering is telling the "whole" story sometimes people get the trades messed up thinking they will be recieving something at a certain time and when the weather like now doesnt permit it they get thier panties all in a bunch.

So basically what we suggest if somebody is dealing with somebody they never have is just that they ask about the person/business on the forums and ask that all replies be done in private via the messenger service heck I'll even lock the subject to make sure nobody responds to the thread.

[sSNAKESs.com]

Amen Clown!! Im glad i dont have these frustrations alone! heh heh! Thats what we are doing now.. the Inquiry thread cant be responded to, so once the thread goes up, it can only be replied to via email or PM :)

CBOI = Canadian Board of Inquiry

[unknownclown]

No your not alone at all.
unfortuantely :(
It has gotten to the point where mods have been asigned to separate forums to watch over so that the whole forum is basically policed at all times, which sounds harsh until you think about it families, kids doing class projects, teachers and the like are comming to the site for information and if there are harsh fights and offensive use of language going on publicly there is a good chance that people will turn away from the site and go somewhere else because of the things going on.

[beth wallbank]

look, the reason for the CBOI to be removed and then controled was for this reason. If it were to be used solely based on the facts and left at that, then it would work. But as like 'other' sites, it turns into a popularity contest like in a school yard. It doesn't work. Even the worst of breeders will have thier followers.
Look, all that Jeff is saying is he has worked damn hard to keep this a 'safe' place to visit without the politics like 'other' sites, and Clown is on the nose with that one. The 'other' sites have lost many followers because of it's troubles.
If you are looking to buy something from someone then you use your better judgement. It's your responsibility to make sure you don't get 'taken'. The seller should be willing to show you pics or send any needed information you request. If someone that doesn't seem familiar email someone that would know, or for that fact several people. Everyone is going to have an opinion whether it be truthful or not, and on an open forum like this one, it is more than likely that it will be untruthful to mind the feelings of others.

[PortCreditPets]

Jeff, Laurryn, Linds, Jason H, Dom and Shane (and others) you guys are doing a great job. On behalf of the majority of the ssnakess communitty ignore the fools that have nothing better to do then stir the pot.

Your efforts are noticed by the keepers that are in this hobby for the long haul. I am confident your effort will be supported Jeff through the many different growth pains that all projects endure in the first few years. This site has come along way it has truthfully become the central point compared to most other reptile related sites online. Most of the regular providers (sorry not all, some have hidden agendas) are honest and knowledgable keepers that are willing to offer their experiences. Their input is always great to read and archive for future support.

Keep up the great work and never forget to smile.

Grant Crossman

[beth wallbank]

well said Grant, this truly is a learning site and is obviously paying off well. You guys keep doing what is being done now, and the herpers will take care of you. Hats off to ya!